Vin breakdown for my Mark2

These are the only specific references (other than line item) for 240 and 340 in The Judging Guide:

Note: This guide includes the MK 2 models 240 and 340. While only 730 240ÔÇÖs and 535 340ÔÇÖs LHD were produced, they never the less are MK 2ÔÇÖs and deserve to be included. 240ÔÇÖs mainly for Europe were not imported to the US. All entries apply to USA and Canadian cars unless otherwise noted. A guide for the Daimler V8 models derived from the MK 2 will be available as a supplement.

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In judging the MK 2 range which includes the 240 and 340, judges should be aware that toward the end of the pure MK 2 model run, 1967/1968, there were cars which were completely MK 2 in every respect which carried the 340 marking on the boot lid from the factory. The 240 and 340 models with the numerous technical changes they incurred still had the outward appearance of the MK 2. [Ref: George Camp].

Should we add to Ref: George Camp that on the middle versions, between badged MK2's and small bumpered 340's, there was also no engine displacement on the boot lid?

Just to help the Judges in "The Field"?

Dave

Dave simply enlarge the image--it says "the launch of the XJS. They are copies of the Dugdale book. I explained what they were. Not sure why you do not call--it is toll free!

Whatever those last two items are you scanned and posted, I cannot read them. I think the top of the page on second item is "lurch of the great dig", not sure how that relates to Jaguars.

Page 126 of Dugdale/Cook with same permissions. You will have to magnify this to read as with above--sorry for the poor quality. If you are not aware of the book "Jaguar" in America and you are interested in Jaguars you should buy a copy. It is available in the shoppe. John Dugdale was involved with Jaguar from the beginning in the US and Canada. He rejoined Jaguar in 1966 as the VP for advertising and continued on to be the national product publicity manager for all of BL in the US. Cook and remained with Jaguar after the fall of BL as the corporate Public Relations manager.

With permission of Dugdale/Cook and Aztex Publishing c 2001.

A bit more clarity--these are the numbers as published by Jaguar for the cars in question:

2.4L Mk2 RHD begins 100001 with production of 21768

2.4L Mk2 LHD begins 125001 with production of 3405

3.4L Mk2 RHD begins 150001 with production of 22095

3.4L Mk2 LHD begins 175001 with production of 6571

240 RHD Begins 1J1001 production of 3716

240 LHD Begins IJ30001 with production of 730

340 RHD begins 1J50001 with production of 2265

340LHD begins 1J80001 with production of 535

NOTE: the slim bumper "proper" 240s and 340s have a vin that starts 1J

When trying to determine a cars sequence you have to start in the proper vin set. You can not use the set for a 2.4L car to determine a 3.4L car etc.

For clarity here is an ad from 1966. This one came from Joe Egle (Kansas City area) a dealer at the time and later a "C" type owner. Note they have used a stock photo but it is a large bumper car. If it were a NEW model do you not think a new pic would have been order. As Dugdale stated this was the new entry model in the US. There was the "S", 420, 420G, and the "E".

I have nothing to add except I've seen George's son's Pale Primrose car in the flesh. It is gorgeous and as much a Mk2 as my 65 was, except it was clearly sold as a 340 for the American market. I was amazed to see it and learn that this all happened a long time before what most of us know as the slim bumper Ambla 340 was launched. Nigel knows his stuff but I am certainly not the only Brit to be surprised that 'Mk2 340s' were sold in the USA long before what we know as the slim bumper 340 was actually launched.

When you see a car of known provenance in the flesh, you have to accept the evidence of your own eyes no matter how many books you've written. Ask me how I know...

Pete

Dave you need to read Dugdale--period. The US Ad campaign for 1966 supports his words as the 340 in all ads is clearly just a MK2. DEALERS DID NOT ADD EMBLEMS. Had they done so there would be evidence that the other emblems were removed--they ares not and there is not. As far as the vins dave you are confusing RHD with LHD and 2.4 and 3.4 it seems. Here is what the factory uses---the vins for the 240 and 340 cars (SMALL BUMPER) begin with 1J . Dave feel free to call if you like.

George- Are we talking about left over MK2's that US dealers added "340" emblems to?
Ones numbered in MK2 production?
If the car has leather interior, big bumpers, and just a "340" badge, with numbers that fall within the MK2 range, probably a re-badge, I would guess.

I made a call today to ask about this, as I had heard about it. Also heard you might have been a boat sailor. What hull number?
669.
Dave

Timothy Roberts

Please contact me directly off line about your JCNA number.

Steve Kennedy
JCNA Secretary
skennedyjcna.com

I re-read Thorley. Knowing my VIN by hart, and looking at the numbers, they are starting numbers. RHD 2.4 is 100001, mine is 118011.
Therefore, 180001 for LHD 340's should be a starting number
Guides?
MK2 JCNA Judging Guide.
Page one, "references", Thorley.
Page 6, radiator and shroud, Thorley.
Page 8, Air Filter, Thorley.
Page 16, Seat Belts, Thorley.
Page 17, Instruments, Steering Wheel, Thorley.

I do recall specifically comments about guides must be based upon facts, factory data, not books.

Just surprised at your comment, since he is quoted as a source of authenticity seemingly quite often. "Dave you are quoting Thorley (who is English and they do not understand the US history) as stating 175001 LHD was the last?"

That's the first I've seen 66 as 340's. Everything else I've read shows Mark 2 1959-1967.
Odd.

Dave one question--what guides?

Dave that is the point--he has large bumpers and a MK2 VIn--but if a US model after the time I cited it is still a 340!

It's hard to read, George. In fact, I am surprised so much Thorley is used in the Guides. One part gives the span, one gives just one VIN number, no start, no finish.
Danged Brits, anyway, eh?
But, I guess, if he's got small bumpers and vinyl seats, it's a 340 anyway.

George. I will request a certificate for sure, I just need to wait for my membership number for the application form. As for further info, I really appreciate what I have already learned and thank you again for your help. I will see what info comes back from the certificate.

Tim go to the Library section here and request a certificate! Other than that what do you want to know?

George thanks for all of that great information. I learned more about my car in a few lines than I have been able to find out after hours of research and reading. My 340 is indeed a wide bumper model and also has many other aspects that made me believe it was closer to the Mk2 than the true 340. If you are able to help with any other info or areas that I might be able to research, I would be very grateful. Also, I believe my car came up from California.

Dave the North American Archives are NOT on vacation--that is the JHT which provides the same service! The certificate information is found in the library section--easy to follow instructions. As far as the VIN goes the US market changed the name of the MK2 to 340 well prior to any other market. My son's 340 that is a MK 2--big bumpers and all is 180654 and was built 22 Nov. 1966 and dispatched 15 Dec 1966. The tell tale sign is the fact that Timothy's car is numbered in the MK2 sequence--181500 or only some 846 cars after my son's. Means Tim's car is actually a 1967 and is simply registered as a 1968. No Mk2s or 340s were imported into the US in 1968 as they did not meet regulations! You said it best Dave when you quoted 1J80001 as the first 340. This is infact the first of the slim bumper cars. The 340 had been the model in the US since 1966. To quote John Dugdale (a bit of an authority on the US market, in his book "Jaguar in America) p.125-126 under the heading "Selling the 1966 Line of Six Jaguar Models" he states"so purely as a marketing device we changed the names of the sedans from 3.4 liter and 4.2 liter to 340,420 and 420G. Dave you are quoting Thorley (who is English and they do not understand the US history) as stating 175001 LHD was the last? Dave in fact that was the first of 6571 that were made so the last number is around 181572 or well within Tim's car--in fact Tim's car is one of the last 3.4 MK2s made (although badged as 340). The first true 340 was indeed 1J80001 for LHD but that model did not come to the US! I do realize Tim is in Canada but the vin numbers are accurate for that. True 340s (small bumper have a different vin sequence. The US 340s have a MK2 vin. And before we begin a discussion that is as misleading as the first---the cars were badged as 340s at the factory--the badges were not redone in the US. The US market was more than 70% of Jaguar's market so a simple badge requirement was a small thing. Dave not launching on you but this has been gone over before. The question that has (and prob. will never been answered is what was the first US vin that was badged as a 340!

Thorley, 3.4L MK2, LHD, last Sep 67, 175001
340, first, Sep 67, 1J80001
Yours being 181500, well out of MK2 range.
There is a MK1, MK2, saloon section further down.
Heritage certificates available somewhere on this forum, but they are "on vacation" for a while, last I read.
Dave

Hi, I am new here and hope I am in the right forum. I am trying to get information on my 1968 mark2 340 as it seems to be halfway between a classic mark2 and the 340. the car number is P181500BW, the engine number is a KJ11271-8, the body number is an EO67851 and has an automatic transmission numbered EG1018. Can anyone tell me where I can get the original certificate of manufacture or help with more information? Anything I can find out is greatly appreciated. Tanks. Tim.