Discussion on Clear Bra topic - Why so harsh?

I think - after reading theses posts - there should be a way to get this done . When the clear bra discolors , replace them as with any worn component that would get a deduction. There are also clear film products that are easily removable that provide protection when driving. This is also an option . The vinyl covers with soft backing is an option and are readily removed to allow competing and not just display class. Kind of seems to me there are several options that will get the 'job' done . I am in champion class , so this does not apply to me any longer . But - as we may return to driven after the goofy judging this year - I am interested ! Thomas Inwood

The point is Dick that on certain coloured cars a chip in the paint is final and permanent. It can "never" be repaired to the extent that you will not be able to see. Believe me I know all about that way too well. A damaged clear bra on the other hand can easily be removed, the area thoroughly cleaned and then a replacement clear bra re applied.

Sorry but I am still having difficulty with the allowances that have been made in the rules to accommodate the weather related hardships of only a small portion of the clubs members while at the same time refusing to recognise all the others with weather related hardships. Oh well.

I spent 30 years at new car dealerships (disclosure: none were Jaguar) and it's very common to offer a huge array of 'dealer installed' options....both factory authorized (such as 'Genuine Jaguar Accessories') and aftermarket, non-factory-affiliated/authorized items.

The manufacturers I'm familiar with required that non-factory options be clearly identified as such and that a disclosure be made that the factory warranty woudn't apply to such items. Other than that it was pretty much carte blanche. Some dealers don't do very well with these disclosures, causing no end to customer confusion and, sometimes, great dissatisfaction. I could write a book.

Cheers
DD

I just wondered if dealers had to get their options approved through jaguar. If so, wouldn't that make it jaguar approved? I personally don't care for them but I see their usefulness.

If your dealer is like most they can and will offer almost anything under the sun as an option.

our local jaguar dealer offers the clear bra as a dealer option as well as tinting. Just saying.

Be reminded that, where present, clear bras are judged for fit, discoloration and damage.

Would you rather try repairing a few paint chips or a few dings in a clear bra?

Removable fabric bras are ideal if you can get a good fitting one that doesn't scuff the paint.

Good luck,
Dick Cavicke

Touche.

I had no idea that the tinted screen allowance was made to accommodate those living in the south to help protect their cars from the intense sun. Would it not be only fair then to accommodate those living in the north that have to battle with both sand and salt being spread on the roads through the winter months to allow them to have some sort of rule allowance in order for them to add protecting to the body work of their cars. You know fair is fair.

Competing in the JCNA Champion Division classes will not be everyone's favorite activity. Preparing Jaguars to the prescribed standard of: ".... as it was officially documented or intended to have left the factory." is not always easy and, during that preparation or actual restoration, many "post production" items will be discovered that may clearly improve the durability or maintainability of a component.

A great many of such items may be invisible to the judging process or have actually been added by "Jaguar Cars", as "official" updates or "options" for specific models, and should be accepted by Judges without penalty.

JCRC has accommodated some requests for exceptions to the rules, where operating conditions dictate special consideration. Additional window tinting, for Driven Division Entries, was allowed because the "factory tinting" did not adequately screen the daily intense sun in many southern US states.

While clear bras offer added protection for the finish, they are not required to counter the everyday elements as was case with the extra window tinting. If the factory or Jaguar USA should authorize clear bras as an option/accessory then JCRC would indicate their acceptance for the applicable models. Any clear coverings, already being applied by the factory, on other sections of the outer body and having a Jaguar Cars Part Number or other official designation, should be accepted without question.

Otherwise, a formal proposal to accept clear bras for Driven or other concours division Entries may be submitted for consideration by JCRC and possible presentation at the 2015 AGM.

Constructive comment always welcomed.

Dick Cavicke
Chair, JCNA Judges' Concours Rules Committee

Bob..not everybody wants to go for the 'participation 'award! In the immortal words of Sean Connery in 'The Rock' .."losers whine about doing their best..winners go home and fuck the prom queen" QED.

A very contentious subject that keeps coming back.
It can be accepted without complaint that JCNA would like to maintain a certain standard for their Concours but when the rules are taken too far they can become very destructive to the general attendance numbers for concours events. Stringent rules are great for the near perfect trailer queen owners but for guys like you and I that enjoy driving our cars on a daily, weekly or just sunny day basis it become a huge problem. Just one stone chip in the body work can render your car totally uncompetitive. You might just as well turn up to the event with an unclean car.

I was like you. I had a perfect car that was absolutely as it came off the production line both on top and the underside. It was a black car and I was addicted to driving it. Inevitable it gained a stone chip in the hood that drove me absolutely nuts every time I polished the car. No matter how well it was repaired, it showed up in certain lights. I eventually gave up showing the car in JCNA concours, no point spending the money and having that stone chip brought to my attention each time.

My suggestion to you is to do as I have done, accept things as they are. Continue to enjoy driving your car. Avoid the judging part of Concours by showing your car in the enthusiasts section. This will allow you to display your car in all its glory while at the same time enjoying all the camaraderie that comes with attending a Concours meet without suffering the stress of having the car judged. Why have it judged, you already know how beautiful your car is.

John, wouldn't that give you an advantage over someone that chose to keep their car "as delivered"??? Would you stop at just a clear braw, how much of the front could be covered, or it could protect the complete car and better preserve it for future generations? Should you be able to cover the fenders (bumpers) on an E-type? Covered head lights on an E-type? Where does it end? Some things to think about when you submit your proposal.
Cheers Tom

JCNA Concours Rules; synonymous with Living in the Past, and why entries continue to decline year after year.

Tell me, when new cars like the F-Type are delivered from the factory with protective clear vinyl on rear wheel arches, side sills, front bumpers and other surfaces to protect from stone chips, what is JCNA going to do? Demand their removal? And if not, then why shouldn't I be equally allowed to protect the pristine paint work on my car?

And today's protective vinyls are unbelievably clear and free of orange peel, especially 3M Venture Shield, so talk of yellowing and fading is just that, so much talk. If it is damaged or yellowed or faded, then you simply deduct for that just as if the paint itself were damaged or yellowed or faded.

JCNA Motto: If ain't broke, don't fix it.

The problem is, it IS broke. And that's why instead of growing, the club is totally stagnant and has been for years.

A custom made, removable, flexible, soft-backed vinyl bra is an easy and quick remedy for your concerns about receiving road rash while enjoying your "Driven" class Jaguar. I had one constructed for my 1958 XK150 and used it successfully for the19 years I owned her. Drove it throughout The North East to every Concours without incident. Not that expensive. Just a suggestion and immediate solution.
Hal Kritzman, JCSNE, CJ
JCRC, NE

John certainly a topic that could be discussed again but your timing would make it impossible to change until next AGM. You are a bit off in your suggestion that the JCRC simply dictates rules and such. Every rule or policy in the rule book is there because the membership of JCNA voted it so. I suggest you look in the library and begin the process by filling out a "rules change proposal" and submitting it. A good discussion here can continue but until there is an action it will be just that--a discussion. As far as the "exceptions" you pointed out they were also brought about by rules change actions in the past. When you think about what to propose please consider there are 3 groups--Concours, Driven, and Special. The special class can use clear bras now--in fact it helps them qualify. As to your comments about hauling vs driving to shows the chips are of course an issue BUT it is the simple fact that the dirt and grime picked up off the roads that weigh much more. Stone chips and such that are properly repaired are not an issue here. Just a polemic for your thoughts----if you have a clear bra and it is damaged by a stone should that be "overlooked" as it is not into the original surface? When the bra fades and discolors should that be "overlooked"? Just some of the questions that will come up. I might also remind you that if the JCRC rejects your proposal the BOD will still vote on supporting it or not. Should the JCRC and Full BOD reject it you still have the right to present it at the AGM for a membership vote. In all honesty though at that point you would need a huge "popular" support. Remember the BOD members as the JCRC members are simply JCNA members that volunteer their time to the club and represent many clubs each. Best of luck and we should see your proposal soon,.

Geoffrey, Thank you. Yes we are now the proud owners of a 20' United UTX Car Hauler, and a loaned Ford F250 which we will use this year then most likely sell. I would much more like to drive to all the events, but I do not want to risk the damage. I never thought I would go to this extent but I have a wonderful car that I want to share, and the rules make me go this route. Too bad.

John

John, I enjoyed your comment above. I did a body off restoration on my XK140 FHC/MC in 1986. I made the decision then to make her a trailer Queen. To this day I concours the Jag with great success. Having said that, Wells Cargo makes a great 20' trailer.
Good Luck,
Geoffrey