Fouling plugs

Charles: Here's an article from the technical library on changing out grosse jets, unfortunately, no photos. It applies to Series 1 HD-8's, but is about the same procedure for the Zenith carbs. The author is one helluva guy I know and is beyong reproach!
http://www.jcna.com/library/tech/tech0026.html

Patrick McLoad
1966 E-Type, Right-hand Drive Roadster
#1E1445

What is a gross valve? I found a grose needle valve in a couple of places. Why is it better or different than the needle valve supplied in the rebuild kit? Does the little ear of the float still rest on its top?

EGG ON MY FACE
OK, gentlemen, get ready to hold you sides. I finally went back to look at my distributator. It is a 22D. There is no little silver thing on the back of it. Just the vernier to adjust the timing etc. I don't know where I got the mental image of the vacuum retard / advance device. I guess I'm inhaling too many fumes. I do have a couple of other cars I play with, but I can see that little silver vacuum device as clear as a bell in my mind. Nothing like a second look to spoil a good story or mental image. Sorry. You are all very well informed. It is a USA car from original, purchased by my brother in Calif. It has 2 Zenith Strombergs.

No progress with the carbs yet, I'm waiting for the brass portion of the spindle seals to arrive. I'm anxious to see if this exercise has changed anything.

If I can not get the temperature compensators to move freely, is it wise to replace them? Are they important? Remember the car ran great once it warmed up. Idle while cold or cool was poor. It would snort, backfire etc. when cool or on hard acceleration, and foul the plugs. It seemed to like to be choked. I did take the choke mechanism apart and cleaned it. I see the little holes, but do not really understand how it works. How do I make sure it is not slightly closed?

Thanks,
Charles (egg on face) Peterson
68 E-type, Seattle

Charles,
You might want to replace the needle valve with a gross jet while you have the carbs aprat. These are availbale from the usual suspects.

The front carb shuold have the bypass valve and the rear a blnking plate as you described; this is correct. The bypass valve on front carb should be connected by a small, short hose to the intake manifold almost directly above the valve. The intake manifold has a small bent tube that the hose connects too.

You need to be careful with the tempurature compensator do not bend them when checking operation. Its a bi-metallic strip that could be tested in hot water. Very few problems with these so long as they are clean. There should be a rubber seat that the plastic valve end closes against. Clean the seat area and insert a new seat that should be in the kit. Don't pry the bi-metallic strip excessively or at all.

The best of us have trouble with the metal portion of the spindle seals, why they aren't supplied with the kits is beyond me - they are brass and corrode against the carb body.

I'm curious as to were the vacuum hose from the distrubuter connects too. The distrubutors have different centrifugal weights and springs depending on the Lucus Catalog number and engine application for the centrifugal (mechanical) advance. Not good to get them crossed on a single distributor or between two distributors. Your car should not have a vacumm advance (or is it retard?) distributor.

Hope this helps.

Stew Cleave
JOCO Chief Judge
'69 E-Type 2+2 and other LBC's

Hello again!
I have taken the carbs off and apart, one is back together, not very difficult, as you said. Of course I don't know if they work yet. The inside of both was very dirty, lots of varnish. The dipping solution I used reminded me of embalming fluid. That brought back lots of memories! One needle valve may have been bad. It had crud around it but seemed to move ok.

The front carb has a bypass valve, but the rear does not, it's location is covered by a plate. The front carb bypass valve's diaphram was torn, so I replaced it. Would that condition cause the fouling?

Both temperature compensators were very dirty and stick despite cleaning them up. Should I replace them? I can not seem to get them to slide smoothly inside the little side tube. They moved well when out of the carb. but when I put back in seemed to stick. Would they cause fouling?

Back to the distributor. On the back side of the distributor there is a flat silver colored device with a tube connected. It looks like the "distributor vacuum unit" shown in XK unlimited's catalog, and one is advertised for a 1968 E type. Part # LU-54413770/RB. I'm quite certain the car is all original.

I also had a problem with "prise the spindle seals out of the body" after removing the throttle spindle. The metal portion of the seal was destroyed by the time I got done. New metal ones were not in my rebuild package, so I had to get new ones, which slowed me down. Can you get those out and not destroy them? I managed on the second carb to do that, but replaced them with new anyway because they were bent.

Thanks,
Charles Peterson 68 E-type, Seattle

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the chokes (when applied) enrichen the fuel/air mixture? If so, is it not possible that his chokes are slightly "on", thereby fouling the plugs?

Patrick McLoad
1966 E-Type, Right-hand Drive Roadster
#1E1445

Stew no. That is because everywhere else a 68 got 3 carbs---remember. I think he said he has 2 Stroms. George Camp

George and Charles,
I just went to my 1968 Lucas Catolog CCE906/68 and distributor #41207A, without the vacuum advance, is listed for USA, "to comply with American Federal Safety Standards". #41060, which has the vacuum advance,is listed for everywhere else. Could this be an offshore or Canadian car? I will check the MY '68 Advanced Information IPL and report if I find anything significant.
Stew Cleave
JOCO Chief Judge
'69 E-Type 2+2 and other LBC's

Charles,
Rebuilding the carbs is relatively simple so long as you have a good manual like Bentley's or Haynes'. You might want to get both. Get a card table too, its cheaper than a devorce lawyer. Make sure you do one at a time, because the parts from one should not should not be intermixed with the other as the body and cylinder are machine matched. However, you should take both carbs off at the same time so as not to break the fuel tee between the two carbs, assuming it's an original plastic unit.

I'm curious as to how you came to have a vacuum unit on your car, are you sure the engine is correct, it should have the aluminum crossover at the rear of the engine. You may want to download the Series 2 E-type Judges' Guide forem the Concours page of this site and study the engine section and the carb section to make sure you have the correct engine and the correct carbs for the engine. The MY 68 (Series 1.5) E-type is the same as the early engine variation 1 on the Series 2s. There's a lot of good E-type people in the Seattle Club, why don't you give them a hollar? I believe the ignition timing is different for each of the 3 variations of the S2 and the automatic tranny tune up settings may be different from the OTS and FHC models.

I will be attending the Western Washington ABFM in at Bellvue Community College in July? I'd like to see you and your car there. Contact me off line if you need more help.

Stew Cleave
JOCO Chief Judge
'69 E-Type 2+2 and other LBC's

OK guys, Mea Culpa! I don't know a vacuum advance from a retard. You are not dealing with the sharpest blade here. I guess that silver thing on the back of the distributor is a retard. Sounds like I have one on the back of my brain. Some people have sugggested that in the past.

So, assuming I have been able to adjust the timing, and have the correct distrubutor and the correct fuel pump (it has been there for the 30 years I've been inolved with the car, my brother had it before that)and the car has been running ok, it sounds like the next thing is to look at the carbs.

How do I do that? Should I do a complete rebuild? Which I guess means take them off and into my "loving" wife's house and make a mess by her standards. Is there a source of good instructions of how to do it? I did get the rebuild kits, but have had slow feet, good weather is here and I don't want to be without the car for days and days. Back when I was younger and smarter I did know how to set up build and balance a 3 carb manifold on my Ford Flathead. But I didn't worry about much back then.

Thanks for the help. Please keep it coming.
Charles Peterson 68 E-type, Seattle

Charles,

I agree with George. Your car should not have a vacuum advance distributor. The early years of the Strombergs, the distributor had neither vacuum advance or retard, I believe. The later cars in Ser. II had vacuum retard installed. You can tell the difference by where the vacuum line attaches -- vacuum advance attaches to the center of the round unit, away from the distributor; vacuum retard attaches to the back of that round unit, on the same side as the distributor.

In any event, I believe that you should disconnect the vacuum line in either case to set the timing initially. If you have vacuum advance, disconnect it anyway (you shouldn't have it), and plug the vacuum line. A screw or golf tee works great for that. Check the book -- timing should be 10 deg. btdc at 700 rpm I believe. At 1000 rpm, the mechanical advance will advance you a couple of degrees.

As far as the plugs go, it does sound like you are running rich. Follow the procedure in the manual carefully for setting the carbs up. But I agree with George, you should probably be checking the carbs to be sure that the floats are working right and that the valves are closing. The Strombergs have limited adjustment of the mixture. You must also check to be sure that you don't have any vacuum leaks around the carbs, especially on the shaft bushings. An easy way to check that is to spray some carb cleaner on the throttle shafts and see if the revs drop. If they do, you are sucking air in and need to replace the bushings. Timing won't cause your car to run rich. It's something with the carbs.

Steve Weinstein, JTC-NJ
'70 XKE FHC
'69 XKE OTS

Charles if you have a vac. advance you have the wrong distributor. As far as the fouling you need to check the float level and the needles for wear. What fuel pump are you using. If it is aftermarket you need to check to make sure you are not making too much fuel pressure. As far as your boot spring problem-----let someone who has done it do it. Step 1 if you do it get a package of bandages----for the cut you will have. George Camp