We had our Concours today and was once again drafted into judging... which I did mostly to help since as usual judges are hard to find.
It opened my eyes once again ( 4th or 5th time I judge )...
Judges are not given the material and information they need to do a proper job. I was assigned to XK8, S & X. easy classes yet lots of questions little answers. S n Xs were easy 2 spotless new cars, which underwent intensive preparation... couldn' find one spot...
The XK8s turned out to be the headache altough as an XKR owner I am familiar with them.. but...
why can't we have a simple juging reference where judges on the field can quiqkly get an answer... like chrome wheels, wheel badge color, pinstripes, etc... Carpet floormats are an issue... 2 cars didn't have them... deduct ? how much ? head judge couldn't find a deduct in the rule book either so no deduct... didn't feel right...
One of them had a burgundy piping and a leaper emboidered on the headrest. No material to decide but it did look factory original and I've seen a couple of these in showrooms....
And the list could go on...
From an entrant point of view, the judges are supposed to know. From a club point of view, we had 55 cars on the field, that takes a number of judges and we have to use less experience guys. But if they dont' have detailed info it's a loose loose situation... The Judge seminar and test doesn't apply to any such issues, it merely covers procedures and paperwork...
So what is the solution ?
at minimum there should be simple guides judges are given on the field with the obvious known issues with this models. Why should we have ( in 15 minutes ) to go thru the entire rule book to find a answer ? Tire size, wheel options for each year, etc etc... IT would be a first step before going to full fledge originality guides
Personally, this is the last time I judge... it's not just enjoyable to spend 15 minutes finding what's wrong with a car... And then not even being sure if I was fair or not !
I'd rather spend the time admiring them, taking pictures and talking to fellow owners...
Pascal Gademer
72 E-type 2+2
00 XKRCoupe
99 XJR
Submitted by SW03-09811 on Wed, 11/13/2002 - 15:02
Submitted by Mfulton412@aol.com on Sun, 11/10/2002 - 22:04
Re.: Judging experience
Pascal
I was asked to help judge twice this year, and having never done so, I was very uncomfortable. I have no clue about orginality issues on car classes other than my own. All I could offer my judging teams was to look for cleanliness, etc. After two years and nine concours, I'm ready to start enjoying these events. I said this last year and someone talked me out of it. Who knows, maybe I will get the itch again come springtime. But for now, I just want to have fun. It really gets to be a pain trying to make corrections on the car, only to find out at the next event that there is something else that has been missed at all the previous concours.
Mike
1938 SS Jaguar 1.5 Litre Saloon
More affectionately known as PEACHES
Submitted by mfrank@westnet.com on Sun, 11/10/2002 - 08:25
Re.: Judging experience
It's very hard to document every last detail, and getting agreement. Look at Thomas Haddocks book on E-Type originality, which is a couple of hundred pages, with photos, and it's still controversial. Imagine having to come to the field with a stack of books like that.
I also think there should be a year cutoff for concours entries. There's nothing wrong with having a beauty field for current production cars, but to take a 2002 X-Type to a competitive concours is sort of odd. It seems to me that concours prizes should reward and owner who's managed to keep a vintage car in pristine condition.
We tried a different format at our event this year. Most of the field was a very low cost people's choice program, while the JCNA judge cars were a completely separate group. Owners wishing JCNA judging had to preregister, and paid $75 per car. Everyone who participated had a better time. Those in the casual field weren't overly obsessed with either appearance or winning. Those in the JCNA field were serious cars which indisputably had a shot at national prizes. Judging was much more serious, but with only a handful of contestants, it wasn't too painful. Everyone had time to see the show, and since we were co located with a polo event, there was plenty of time to enjoy the ponies.
Mike Frank
Unfortunately, feelings of inadequacy are common to conscientious people assigned to judge cars they know little about.
This particular problem has been with and acknowledged by JCNA for years.
Under the sponsorship of the Judge's Concours Rules Committee, a solution is being undertaken in the form of drafting individual
model Judging Guides but their authorship is tedious and their final approval will take time.
Jaguar Cars recent and continuing introduction of several new models adds to the problem. Keeping up with what is "Factory Original" and/or
"Authentic Jaguar accessories and options" on these newer cars is a daunting task. One of the more upsetting discoveries the owner of a new
Jaguar can make is to enter his car in a JCNA concours and to learn there that the chrome wheels on his car were not provided by the Jaguar
Factory but were were actually added by the dealer and, therefore, according to the rules are "non-authentic" and warrant a deduction.
Until the Judging Guides are individually approved by the AGM delegates and are made official, we're going to have to muddle through with knowledge
gleaned from the information in the existing official Jaguar manuals, handbooks, brochures, etc.
It is my opinion that all items provided (by the factory) as standard equipment on a given model become part of the car's "basic
configuration". Cars normally delivered with factory floor mats should be displayed with them at a concours. Both the mats, and the carpet
under them, should be subject to judging. Rule Book, Chapter 6, Non-Authenticity is being revised and will include more specific items, however, the current
edition includes: "Carpeting. Carpet- Wrong color or type (Entire set)...16.8; (Per Piece) ....2.0". I believe, in Pascal's case, it would have been reasonable to
have deducted 2.0 points for each missing floor mat.
Conversely, items offered by Jaguar Cars as optional accessories or equipment need not be shown (ex. some cars had optional tool kits). However,
if the owner chooses to show them (or has no option but to show them) with the car, those items may be subject to judging and related deductions.
Hang in there!! We're trying to fix the problems.
Dick Cavicke
Chairman, JCNA Judge's Concours Rules Committee