Oil in old cars

Edited on 2008-03-09 18:32:34

Edited on 2008-03-09 16:29:15

Edited on 2008-03-09 16:28:51

I have been very pleased with the combination of conventional motor oil Valvoline VR-1 20-50 Racing Oil (different product than the "Not Street Legal" 20-50 used for break-in in the first 500 miles) and BG motor oil additive on my rebuilt 1987 Jaguar XJ6 engine. The BG additive ($11) adds to the "smooth" engine feel, most noticeable, upon acceleration when freeway driving.

Scott W. Moseley

Thank you Bob!

This is a guy that knows what he is talking about!

The only caveat I have with your post deals with Valvoline VR-1. I did some research for another Jag owner who came to me through this site and from what I found it would appear as though "regular" VR-1 has the recommenced levels of ZDDP. Best to do your own research to confirm before putting a new oil in your car.

Daniel

J.A.M.
Make no mistake about it, there is a problem with flat lifter (tappet)camshafts and most/every camshaft re-grinder in the US has issued bulletins on the problem. If you do a Google of ZDDP you'll find articles that state several things occurred at about the same time that brought the problem to a head. The oil companies(most) started reducing the amount of ZDDP in their product and several of the major lifter(tappet) manufactures in this country went out of business and the implication is that many inferior off shore produced lifters appeared on the market.
As it appears that cam re-grinders were the first to point out the problem it would lead a person to think that the problem is mainly with the valve train in pushrod rod engines with "hot" cams and high valve spring pressures, however from Daniel's article it appears the problem is not limited to race engines alone.
This issue was kicked around on E-Type Lovers several months ago and I believe that only one person had suffered a lifter problem at that point in time. As the XK lifters are running in literally a flood of oil compared to most push rod engines perhaps the problem will not effect us but to be safe I'm going to use one of the oils that the best known cam grinder in the country, Isky, recommends, which is:
Brad Penn Grade 1 formerly Kendall GT-1 "the green stuff"
Pennzoil GTP Racing oil Do not confuse with the regular grades of Pennzoil
Valvoline Racing Oil Do not confuse with regular grades of Valvoline or Valveoline VR-1
Isky does not recommend any synthetic oil during break in with a flat tappet engine and, as they put it. if you "must" use a synthetic oil after break in there are only two brands that they are comfortable recommending and that is Amzoil Red Racing Oil and Joe Gibbs Performance Racing Oil

I just emailed George to ask him for his opinion.

And I really don't think that Keith Ansell is a motor oil saleman....

I'm not sure I buy this, Keith.

With all due respect, It seems (I said IT SEEMS) you are trying to push Valvoline or Castrol Synthetic. Neither of which I want to buy unless my two trusted Jaguar techs say otherwise.
Regardless, I don't use Valvoline oil in my Jaguars, and don't plan to change either. Castrol is the only motor oil I use.

What I suggest you do is to post these reports at the following Jaguar Forums, where there are experienced Jaguar Trained techs :

http://www.motorcars-ltd.com (Phil Prince is there, a well known technician).

http://www.jag-lovers.org (George Camp is there in the Saloons forum, he's an old timer who's seen it all. In the XJ Forum, you have a lot of experienced rebuilders from the USA and abroad).

not to mention a lot more people than the 5 or so people who are following this thread.

I would like to hear the opinions of hundreds of people on this subject.

Thanks.

OIL IS KILLING OUR CARS : PART II

Last monthÔÇÖs report on this subject is turning out to be just the tip of the iceberg! Many publications have had this subject of zinc-dialkyl-dithiophosphate (ZDDP) covered in varying depths over the last few months. Some publications have even had conflicting stories when you compare one monthÔÇÖs article with their next monthÔÇÖs article! They are all ending up supporting our report.

I have had the good fortune to have the ear of quite a few leaders in the industry including some wonderful input from Castrol and Redline. We have been very reluctant to ÔÇ£dumpÔÇØ Castrol, as it has been such a great supporter of our cars and industry over the years. Castrol hasnÔÇÖt really abandoned our cars, just shifted to a more mass marketing mode. Many Castrol products are not appropriate for our cars today, some still are.

Now for the latest report:
#1 Castrol GTX 20W-50 is still good for our cars after break-in! 10W-40, 10W-30 and other grades are NOT good. Absolute NOT GOOD for any oil (Any Brand) that is marked ÔÇ£Energy ConservingÔÇØ in the API ÔÇ£DonutÔÇØ on the bottle, these oils are so low with ZDDP or other additives that they will destroy our cams. Virtually all ÔÇ£DieselÔÇØ rated oils are acceptable. (See third article to amend this!)

#2 Castrol HD 30 is a very good oil for break-in of new motors. This oil has one of the largest concentrations of ZDDP and Moly to conserve our cams and tappets. (SEE THIRD ARTICLE.This oil is NOT now recommended by Castrol)

#3 Only an unusual Castrol Syntec 20W-50 approaches the levels of protection we need when we look to the better synthetic lubricants. We are attempting to get this oil but will be using Redline 10W-40 or 10W-30 as these are lighter weights for better performance, flow volume, less drag and has the additive package we need.

#4 The trend today is to lighter weight oils to decrease drag, which increases mileage. Most of these seem to be the ÔÇ£Energy ConservationÔÇØ oils that we cannot use.

#5 Redline oil and others are suggesting a 3,000-mile break-in for new engines! Proper seating of rings, with todayÔÇÖs lubricants is taking that long to properly seal. Shifting to synthetics before that time will just burn a lot of oil and not run as well as hoped.

#6 The ÔÇ£Energy ConservationÔÇ£ trend was first lead by automakers to increase mileage numbers and secondly because the ZDDP and other chemicals degrade the catalytic converter after extended miles, increasing pollution. We donÔÇÖt have catalytic converters and the mileage gains are not that significant for most of us.

For you science buffs: ZDDP is a single polar molecule that is attracted to Iron based metals. The one polar end tends to ÔÇ£StandÔÇØ the molecule up on the metal surface that it is bonded to by heat and friction. This forms a sacrificial layer to protect the base metal of the cam and tappet from contacting each other. Only at very high pressures on a flat tappet cam is this necessary because the oil is squeezed/wiped from the surface. This high pressure is also present on the gudgeon pin (wrist pin) in diesel engines, therefore the need for ZDDP in all diesel engines.
Second part of the equation is Molybdenum disulfide (Moly). The moly bonds to the zinc adding an additional, very slippery, sacrificial layer to the metal. I found out that too much of the moly will create problems; lack of this material reduces the effectiveness of the ZDDP. The percentage, by weight is from .01 to .02%, not much, but necessary.

WeÔÇÖll keep you apprised of any new findings! Happy motoring for now!

OIL IS KILLING OUR CARS, Part III (December 7, 2006)
Summation of what has been learned so far.

First is that there is a problem, lack of ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl DithioPhosphate) in modern oils kills at least our cams and tappets. There seems to be no known alternative.

Second, our cars are a small percentage of the total market and BIG Corporate, the American Petroleum Institute and possibly government have made decisions that are detrimental to our cars. This problem isnÔÇÖt going away.

Third, that many oil companies may have products that will continue to function well in our cars. Castrol, Redline, Valvoline, Mobil, Amsoil and others have now commented on my original article and are making suggestions. For some companies they are offering short lists of ÔÇ£acceptableÔÇØ oils, others just one. One company has responded without any substantive information in a two-page ÔÇ£bulletinÔÇØ. By their account all their oils are superior and applicable. This is typical of most larger companies.

Fourth, some oil manufacturers are pointing to metallurgy, blaming poorly built cams and followers. This may have some validity but the bottom line is that there has been a big increase in failures with products that have been on the market with identical products that are now having greatly increased failures. To me the bottom line is, if the lubricants are working there is no contact between surfaces, it shouldnÔÇÖt matter what the materials are, within reason.

Fifth, on ÔÇ£modernÔÇØ production cars, stay with the manufacturerÔÇÖs suggestions. For any car produced before about 1990 the owner needs to be aware that the suggested lubricant may have changed and may not be applicable. Flat tappet, stock, performance or modified may be affected.

Sixth, Yes there is more! Directly from Castrol Engineering November, 27, 2006 ÔÇ£Also, at this time we are not recommending use of heavy duty truck products due to different formula objectives between cars and trucks.ÔÇØ

Now the important information: Oils that seem to be correct for our cars:

Castrol: Syntec 5W-40, Syntec 20W-50, Grand Prix 4-Stroke Motorcycle oil in 10W-40 and 20W-50, TWS Motorsport 10W-60*, BMW Long Life 5W-30*
*= full synthetic, available only at BMW dealerships
Redline: 10W-30, 10W-40 (Synthetic oils)
Valvoline: VR-1 20W-50 (Conventional oil)
Amsoil: Unknown
Mobil: Mobil 1 5W30 and 20W-50 (Synthetic)

What are we going to do at Foreign Parts Positively has been difficult to determine but with few options left, the following is what we are forced to do. Some of our choices have been based on the manufacturerÔÇÖs willingness to help.
Break in: Delo 400 30W
Conventional oil: Valvoline VR-1 20W-50
Synthetic: Redline 10W-30 in newer engines, 10W-40 on older engines.
Break-in is now 3,000 miles (using Delo 400 30W) before changing to running oil.
Oil change interval: 1 year or 18,000 miles with Redline synthetic
1 year or 2,500 miles with conventional oil (Valvoline VR-1 20W-50).
Oil Filters: Correct Fram or Wix (Spin-0n), Felt in can type, changed with every oil change. We emphasize Correct as many oil filter manufacturers do no have proper backflow preventers, pressure bypasses or fine filter media.

Thank you to Castrol, Redline, Christiansen Oil, Valvoline, Mobil and Amsoil for input.

WeÔÇÖre sure this subject will continue: Please forward any new information you may encounter.

Keith M. Ansell
Foreign Parts Positively, Inc.
Kma4285msn.com
360-882-3596

I agree about the transmission, when I do the engine rebuild I'm installing a Getrag 4 speed. All I need is the money.

I wrote this article for JCNA.com several years ago, although I'll be darned if I can find it on this site now! If you are finding metal filings in the bottom of the oil pan then you have a major problem. The earliest sign of my oil additive related problem was loss of power and major metal filings in the oil pan. In my case, the hardened lobes on the cam had worn through very quickly and the softer metal underneath had gotten chewed up very quickly. Tearing down the engine revealed a lot more problems. Acting quickly saved the engine from the scrap heap, but it still cost a lot to repair!

Here's the old article:

How much will it cost to rebuild my engine?

Here is a question I get asked over and over and over again: ÔÇ£How much will it cost to rebuild my JaguarÔÇÖs engineÔÇØ? Owners of Jaguars built from 1950 to the mid-1980ÔÇÖs are bombarded with ÔÇ£opinionsÔÇØ on what it should cost and what work needs to be done. If you start looking around, you will find prices ranging from $2,000 for a ÔÇ£rebuildÔÇØ to $8,000+ for a ÔÇ£rebuildÔÇØ. Needless to say, not all rebuilds are created equal! It goes without saying that the condition your engine is in BEFORE rebuilding will have a major impact on the amount of work required and the final price. If one of your connecting rods is sticking out the side of the block, this may have a significant effect on the cost of the rebuild! Other important factors to consider would be the condition of the most expensive items: is your crankshaft so badly worn or cracked that it needs replacing? Is your head warped (the car, not you!)? Is your block cracked? Has the engine been sitting outside for 20 years and is seized solid with all pistons rusted to the bores? Because if it is it will take many hours of expensive shop labor to ÔÇ£freeÔÇØ it up just to the point where it can be determined if a rebuild is possible.

Anyway, letÔÇÖs try to use the expression frequently employed by economists: ÔÇ£all other factors being equalÔÇØ, we can look at a typical rebuild on a typical six-cylinder Jaguar engine. For the following figures I have relied on and must offer thanks to Ralph Steinberg, owner of Cloverleaf Auto in Aston, Pennsylvania. Ralph and his team have many years experience rebuilding Jaguar engines.

The theoretical engine we will use is a 3.8 liter six-cylinder out of an XK150. The parts, labor and costs will be much the same for any six-cylinder or ÔÇ£XKÔÇØ engine out of any Jaguar from 1950 to 1986. We will use Moss parts list as much as possible for guide lines even though the quality on these parts is the lowest on the market they are usually at least up to OEM (original equipment manufacturer) specs. This is what most rebuilders consider a minimum rebuild to stock specs. Consider this to be the minimum that needs to be done when you tear down a six-cylinder Jaguar engine:

(quantity in brackets with price noted)

(1) oil press. relief valve $49.95
(1) rebuilt front damper [a very weak point in Jags] $205.95,
(6) crank plugs [you destroy them getting them out] $ 15.48
(6) pistons $744
(1) rod bearing set $39.60
(1) wrist pin bushing set $25.00
(12) rod bolts $88.20
(12) rod bolt nuts $35.40
(1) thrust washer set $7.95
(1) main bearing set $99.95
(7) core plugs $19.25
(1) Core plug $2.85
(1) chain tensioner $9.95
(2) chain guides $19.80
(2) chain guides $25.00
(1) oil pump $95.75
(6) intake valves $89.70
(6) exhaust valves 131.70
(12) valve guides, bronze, $63.00
(1) valve spring set $39.95
(1) cam bearing set $67.70
(1) head set $119.00
(1) conversion set $51.95
(1) oil press. relief spring $8.95
(1) oil filter $14.50
(4) engine mounts $59.80
(6) exhaust seats $53.70
(1) tappet hold down kit $41.65
(1) head stud kit $200.10
(2) core plugs $1.10

If the math is done correctly that is $2473.28 in parts and none of the parts are top shelf, they all will meet the minimum requirements to build your engine.

Now on to minimum machine work at a decent shop, not a race machine shop but a good competent shop that has done jag heads before (not easy to find)!

Clean and check head $40.00
Resurface Head $65.00
Install 6 exhaust seats $210.00
Valve job, including adjusting valves $225.00
Install hold down kit $65.00
Clean and mag block $70.00
Resurface block and timing cover $65.00
Align-bore block $90.00
Recondition crank $150.00
Recondition 6 rods $228.00
Bore block $360.00

Again, if the math is done right that comes to $1568.00. So now we have $2473.28 in parts, and $1568.00 in machine work which comes to $4041.28

This does not include removing and installing the engine, tearing the engine down, deciding what needs to be done, cleaning the engine enough to get it to the machine shop, cleaning the engine again before re-assembly, checking all the clearances, putting it back together, paint and polish per OEM. These tasks could easily add $2,000 or more to the cost. You can save money by removing and re-installing the engine yourself (if you have the facilities and abilities to do it). Nor does it include, but you should do, resurfacing the fly wheel, replacing the clutch, re-sealing the trans, rebuilding the carbs, setting up the distributor, checking, cleaning, and rebuilding the radiator, replacing the oil lines, replacing the cooling hoses, replacing the water pump. All of this work should be, read MUST be performed when your engine is out of the car being rebuilt. It is false economy and downright foolish to ignore items like the clutch and transmission when you already have the engine out of the car (unless your plan is to sell the car quickly after the engine rebuild). Obviously, it will add to the cost and labor. Again, the cost of having these items attended to (parts, labor) can run another $2,000 or more.

Doing all the above will give you back an engine no better, but no worse than that which came from the factory. And that assumes that the cams are good, that all the buckets in the head are good and that all the intake seats are good along with all the tappets. And that is a BIG assumption!! If you want to improve the performance of your engine any it will cost more, some times very little some times a lot, depending on where you are going with it. If you plan on winning Jag shows with it the engine has to shine better than it ever did new and that costs a whole lot more. All re-chromed nuts, every nick, dent and scratch hand polished out, etc.... big money, perhaps double the normal labor cost.

So what is the total cost of all this. If youÔÇÖre still following along with your trusty calculator, you will see that we are now in the neighborhood of $6,000 to take an engine out of a Jaguar and have it rebuilt to ÔÇ£normalÔÇØ specs and quality. Make it $8,000 if you care enough to do the other jobs that should be done whilst your engine is out of the car.

Hey! Nobody said owning a Jaguar was going to be cheap! But then again, arenÔÇÖt they beautiful when theyÔÇÖre running properly!

(About the authors: Daniel Thompson is the past president of the Jaguar OwnerÔÇÖs Association-Montreal. Daniel can be reached at dthompsongbc.ca if you have any questions about Jaguars in general. Ralph Steinberg is the owner of Cloverleaf Auto in Aston, PA. See his website at http://www.cloverleaf-auto.com for a history of the company and the services they offer)

thanks for the reply:

my engine got fecked up all of a sudden without warning, started making a "cup cup cupping" noise at idling and under load, which I and others could not pinpoint to any given location. took about 3 different techs with different theories like "the timing chain adjuster fecked up", "sounds like a valve fecked up", and finally, "Crankshaft Bearings fecked up", which was proven by finding "gold dust" at the bottom of the used oil drain pan.

So I am curious if the 20W50 oil had anything to do with it, or if it was going to happen anyway due to the age of the engine.

Curiously, the engine starts inmediately and idles very stable., though the noise continues and this has curtailed my driving the car to zero. Estimates to rebuild go from $3,500. to $15k. I've been told the bearings can be replaced from under the car without removing engine, as long as the crankshaft journals are not scratched.

So that's what I mean by being "fecked up".

Why, is your 3.8 engine "fecked up"?

I'm saying that oils like Castrol 20W50 are not what they used to be, and ignorance of that fact could hurt your pocketbook in a major way. Get informed!

Daniel

are you all saying that Castrol 20W50 fecked up my 3.8 engine?

For a different perspective and loads of researched information, check out:
http://63.240.161.99/motoroil/index.html
I thought I knew about motor oil until I read this!
Bob Wasson, JCNA #15265

This is something that we have only recently cottoned on to, and many of the classic car sites are discussing it. We have used diesel oil in all of our pre 70's cars for some time now. Additionally, we do not use multigrade oils, we use 40W in older/used engines and 30W in modern vehicles. We do consider for the season but in So Cal is not of great concern.

I already asked Keith for permission to reprint this article and he concurred, so use it at your leisure.

I have first hand experience with this problem, having done $7000 of damage to the race engine in my Mini due to ignorance.

Cheers,

Daniel

[b]WOW! Excellent article Keith! Great research. PLEASE somehow get this post into the Tech. Library...it belongs there!

Patrick McLoad[/b]

This article should explain:

About a year ago I read about the reduction of zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate (ZDDP) in the oils supplied with API approval that could affect sliding and high pressure (EP) friction in our cars. The reduction of these chemicals in supplied oils was based on the fact that phosphates reduce the effectiveness and eventually damage catalytic converters and introduce minute amounts of pollutants into our atmosphere.

A couple of months ago I had a member of the Columbia Gorge MG Club bring a totally failed camshaft and lifters back to me that had only 900 miles on them!! I immediately contacted the camshaft re-grinder (Delta Cam) and asked how this could happen. They were well aware of this problem as they were starting to have many failures of this type. In the past, the lack of a molybdenum disulfide camshaft assembly lubricant, at assembly, was about the only thing that could create this type of problem. My customer has assembled many engines and had lubricated the camshaft properly. Then the bad news came out: ItÔÇÖs todayÔÇÖs ÔÇ£modernÔÇØ API (American Petroleum Industry) approved oils that are killing our engines: Meaning all flat tappet (cam follower) equipped engines, as used in all BMC products, all British Leyland products, most pushrod engines prior to 1980, early Volvos, American high-performance engines and many others.

Next call: To a major camshaft supplier, both stock and performance (Crane). They now have an additive for whatever oil you are using during break-in so that the camshaft and lifters wonÔÇÖt fail in an unreasonably short period of time. They also suggest using a diesel rated oil on flat tappet engines.

Next call: To a racing oil manufacturer that we use for the race cars (Red Line Oil). Their response: ÔÇ£We are well aware of the problem and we still use the correct amounts of those additives in our productsÔÇØ. They continued to tell me they are not producing API approved oils so they donÔÇÖt have to test and comply. Their oils were NOT the ÔÇ£new, improved and approvedÔÇØ ones that destroy flat tappet engines! ÔÇ£We just build the best lubricants possibleÔÇØ. Sounds stupid, doesnÔÇÖt it, New-Approved but inferior products, but it seems to be true for our cars.

To top this off: Our representative from a major supplier of performance and street engine parts (EPWI) stopped by to ÔÇ£warn usÔÇØ of the problem of the NEW oils on flat tappet engines. This was a call that the representative was making only because of this problem to warn their engine builders! ÔÇ£The reduction of the zinc, manganese and phosphates are causing very early destruction of cams and followersÔÇØ. They are recommending that, for now at least, there must be a proper oil additive put in the first oil used on new engines, beyond the liberal use of molydisulfide assembly lube. They have been told that the first oil needs the additive but remain skeptical that the first oil is all that is necessary. Their suggestion: Use diesel rated oils such as Delo or Rotella that are usually available at auto stores and gas stations.

This problem is BIG! American Engine Rebuilder's Association (AERA) Bulletin #TB2333 directly addresses this problem. I had a short discussion with their engineer and he agreed with all that I had been finding.

Next phone call was to a retired engineer from Clevite, a major bearing and component manufacturer. First surprise was that he restored older British Motor bikes. The second surprise was that he was ÔÇ£VERYÔÇØ aware of this problem because many of the old bikes had rectangular tappets that couldnÔÇÖt rotate and are having a very large problem with the new oils. He has written an article for the British Bike community that verify all the ÔÇ£bad newsÔÇØ we have been finding.

Comp Cams put out ÔÇ£#225 Tech Bulletin: Flat Tappet CamshaftsÔÇØ. They have both an assembly lube and an oil additive. The telling sentence in the bulletin was ÔÇ£While this additive was originally developed specifically for break-in protection, subsequent testing has proven the durability benefits of its long term use. This special blend of additives promotes proper break-in and protects against premature cam and lifter failure by replacing some of the beneficial ingredients that the oil companies have been required to remove from the ÔÇ£off-theÔÇôshelf oilÔÇØ.

Next question: Now what do we do?

From the camshaft re-grinders (DeltaCam) ÔÇ£Use oils rated for diesel useÔÇØ, Delo (Standard Oil product) was named. About the same price as other quality petroleum based oils. They have the ZDDP we need in weights we are familiar with.

From one camshaft manufacturer (Crane): ÔÇ£use our additiveÔÇØ for the first 500 miles.

From General Motors (Chevrolet): add EOS, their oil fortifier, to your oil, itÔÇÖs only an 8-ounce can (This problem seems to be something GM has known about for some time!). The additive says for break-in only, some dealers add it to every oil change.

From Redline Oil: Use our street formulated synthetics. They have what we need! Early in 2007 they will be supplying a ÔÇ£break-in oilÔÇØ specifically for our cars.

From Castrol: We are beginning to see a pattern emerging on older cars. It may be advantageous to use a non-approved lubricant, such as oils that are Diesel rated, 4 Cycle Motorcycle oils and other specified diesel oils. They will be supplying ÔÇ£new oilsÔÇØ specifically for our cars in early 2007.

For you science buffs: ZDDP is a single polar molecule that is attracted to Iron based metals. The one polar end tends to ÔÇ£StandÔÇØ the molecule up on the metal surface that it is bonded to by heat and friction. This forms a sacrificial layer to protect the base metals of the cam and tappet from contacting each other. Only at very high pressures on a flat tappet cam is this necessary because the oil is squeezed/wiped from the surface. This high pressure is also present on the gudgeon pin (wrist pin) in diesel engines, therefore the need for ZDDP in all diesel engines.

Second part of the equation is Molybdenum disulfide (Moly). The moly bonds to the zinc adding an additional, very slippery, sacrificial layer to the metal. I found out that too much of the moly will create problems; lack of this material reduces the effectiveness of the ZDDP. The percentage, by weight is from .01 to .02%, not much, but necessary according to the chemists.

Now there is no denying that there is a problem, lack of ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl DithioPhosphate) in modern oils kills at least our cams and tappets. There seems to be no known alternative.

Our cars are a small percentage of the total market and BIG Corporate, the American Petroleum Institute and possibly government have made decisions that are detrimental to our cars. This problem isnÔÇÖt going away. The trend today is to lighter weight oils to decrease drag, which increases mileage. Most of these seem to be the ÔÇ£Energy ConservationÔÇØ oils that we cannot use.

Redline oil and others are suggesting a 3,000-mile break-in for new engines! Proper seating of rings with todayÔÇÖs lubricants is taking that long to properly seal. Shifting to synthetics before that time will just burn a lot of oil and not run as well as hoped.

The ÔÇ£Energy ConservationÔÇ£ trend was first led by automakers to increase mileage numbers and secondly because the ZDDP and other chemicals degrade the catalytic converter after extended miles, increasing pollution. Most of us donÔÇÖt have catalytic converters and the mileage gains are not that significant.

Many oil companies may have products that will continue to function well in our cars. Castrol, Redline, Valvoline, Mobil, Shell, Amsoil and others have now commented on my original article and are making suggestions. Some companies are offering short lists of ÔÇ£acceptableÔÇØ oils, others just one. One company has responded without any substantive information in a two-page ÔÇ£bulletinÔÇØ. By their account all their oils are superior and applicable. This is typical of many companies.

Some oil manufacturers are pointing to metallurgy, blaming poorly built cams and followers. This may have some validity but the bottom line is that there has been a big increase in failures with products that have been on the market for many years but are now having greatly increased failures. To me the bottom line is, if the lubricants are working there is no contact between surfaces, it shouldnÔÇÖt matter what the materials used in the products are, within reason.

On ÔÇ£modernÔÇØ production cars, stay with the manufacturersÔÇÖ suggestions. For any car produced before about 1990 the owner needs to be aware that the factory suggested lubricant may have changed and may not be applicable. Flat tappet, stock, performance or modified may be affected. MGBs from 1975 to 1980 must choose to sacrifice the cam or the catalytic converter as an example of how difficult the decisions are becoming!

Yes, there is more! Castrol does understand our dilemma and is actively looking into what it can do to support our cars. We can soon expect to see products from them with specific application to classic cars. Red Line will be offering a ÔÇ£break-inÔÇØ oil soon after the first of the year. ShellÔÇÖs Rotella will be good until about June or July of 2007 with possibly nothing after that date. Delo (Chevron) will also be questionable after the new ÔÇ£CJ-4ÔÇØ standards come in the middle of 2007.

Now the important information: Oils that may be correct for our cars today:

(As reported by manufacturers by 12-31-06, NOTE: many have changed their recommendations over the last three months!

Castrol: Syntec 5W-40, Syntec 20W-50, Grand Prix 4-Stroke Motorcycle oil in 10W-40 and 20W-50, TWS Motorsport 10W-60*, BMW Long Life 5W-30*

*= full synthetic, available only at BMW dealerships

Red Line: 10W-30, 10W-40 (Synthetic oils)

Valvoline: VR-1 20W-50 (Conventional oil)

Amsoil: 20W-50(TRO), 10W-40(AMO), 15W-40(AME) & 20W-50(ARO)

Mobil: Mobil 1 5W-30 and 20W-50 (Synthetic)

Chevron: Delo 400

Shell: Rotella

What we are doing at Foreign Parts Positively has been difficult to determine but with few options left, the following is what we are forced to do. Some of our choices have been based on the manufacturerÔÇÖs willingness to help and specific reports. This list will change in the next months with Castrol and Red Line adding products just for our cars.

Break in: Delo 400 30W (A break-in oil will be available from Redline soon!)

Conventional oil: Valvoline VR-1 20W-50

Synthetic: Red Line 10W-30 in newer engines, 10W-40 on older engines.

Break-in is now 3,000 miles (using Delo 400 30W) before changing to running oil.

Oil change interval: 1 year or 18,000 miles with Red Line synthetic

1 year or 2,500 miles with conventional oil (Valvoline VR-1 20W-50).

Thank you to Castrol, Redline, Christiansen Oil, Valvoline, Mobil, Shell, Standard Oil and Amsoil for input. WeÔÇÖre sure this subject will continue: Please forward any new information on this subject you may encounter.

We have received some very interesting material from ÔÇ£Mr MolyÔÇØ that may be putting molybdenum disulfide (MoS) into this discussion. It seems that ZDDP plus MoS is the best from the oil companiesÔÇÖ opinion but MoS by itself may be beneficial. Some racers swear by it. The literature seems to support ÔÇ£Mr. MolyÔÇÖsÔÇØ position.

Keith M. Ansell

Foreign Parts Positively, Inc.

www.ForeignPartsPositively.com

Kma4285msn.com

360-882-3596

every Jaguar technician I have ever asked, (people in the know), has always told me to use Castrol 20W50 in my two Jaguar engines, a 3.8 and a 4.2. I've never heard of Diesel oil being reccommended. Same for synthetics.