Rebuilt 1990 V-12 engine

Hello Darmo, no one has said anything yet but I think we may be breaking the forum rules by conducting business here. so it would be best to continue by private mail, But to answer your Q's, I had checked and was told approx $200, the price is $4500 and no extras (taxes, packaging etc). The engine comes with a 1 year limited warranty. I have a paypal account but would not accept it for such a large ammount. I can be reached at; yourcarearthlink.net.

William, thanks for your response. Questions:
1. Could you please verify that the shipping cost to Oakville, Ontario, Canada is indeed US $200.00 ?
2. Is there a warranty for this rebuilt engine ?
3. Is the US $4500 you are asking the best price ? Does it include taxes ?
4. Please tell me how I can pay you. Do I need to get into PayPal first ? I don't have it yet, but understand that PayPal may the best way and that I can apply for an account online. I am open to suggestions.

Art, do you know a reputable Jaguar mechanic in the Greater Toronto Area ? I enrolled to the Ontario Jaguar Club, but it will take me a while before I can become a full fledged member as it will take 2 - 3 weeks for my cheque to arrive in Canada. I am in Asia right now.

Thank you.

Darmo Sugeng

I totally agree with William re the 6.0 , it would be a mistake on such a car, the 1990 5.3 are pretty good, and if you want a bit more pep there are things you can do for a reasonable cost without chopping all the wiring etc that a 6.0 would necessitate..........
Best Wishes........art

Hello Darmo, it is still in the crate. No need to check numbers it will fit. the shipping cost was around $200, the engine cost is $4500. you are probably going to need other things like, motor & transmission mounts, exhaust and inlet manifold gaskets, water pump & gaskets etc. whomever you choose to do the installation should know what you will need and where to get it. Bill

William,
1. did you mention that a 5.3 rebuilt is available and crated ?
2. Do you need the Motor Identification number to ensure it will match my transmission and mounting, etc. , as Frans Reitsma suggested above ?
3. What is the price of the engine besides the $200 for checking it ?
4. Could you tell me the cost of shipping to Canada ? I will find out about the regulations of importing used engines from the US to Canada.

Art, thanks for all of your comments and suggesting Coventry West. I will send an email to Dick.

Gentlemen, I thank you all for your suggestion.

Darmo Sugeng

the 1990 5.3 may be available from Coventry West , if not Dick @ Coventry west should be abvle to help with finding one.............. but beware this other joker , he found me an engine a 6.0 to use in my XJS to race.. he still has it and my $6,000 after 26 months, and wants $260 an hour to build a crate

Phew,where are we going here? There is no way I would suggest fitting the 6.0 in this case, it is an electronic nightmare as all of the ECU's are different. The fact is, he doesn't want a custom car he wants a normal car whether it would be 5.3 or 6.0. I only brought up the 94 option as a WHOLE CAR, not as a transplant project. Clearly he likes his 1990 so he needs to get another engine! I would imagine this conversion would be of interest to people such as Art or customisers. to me it would be bastardising a nice car. Regards, Bill

Dear Darmo,

Wow! What an active thread this is! My advice is to listen to Mr. Brady and follow his knowledgeable suggestions. Experienced Jaguar engine rebuilders know the trouble spots (such as the stubborn head removal you described - a common issue). Also, knowing Art I can understand his passion and desire to warn the world (enough said there...); he has a good heart.

I commend you for not turning to the Chevrolet engine solution - too many lumpers out there already.

Best Regards,
Dwight

Darmo, The 6.0 engine itself will just bolt into your car. The problems you will run into are these. 1 the transmission used behind the 6.0 is the GM 4L80E. This trans has a different bolt pattern than the trans in your car, which is the Turbo 400. Now you can drill the block to the bolt pattern of the Turbo 400 and it will bolt up. So now you have your Turbo 400 bolted to the 6.0 block.
2. the next problem may be the oil cooling system. The 6.0 uses the full flow system, where the 5.3 used a bypass flow system, at least in the US that is the way it was. I understand that Euro cars and maybe Canada cars also use the full flow system for the 5.3 cars, not sure about that. Lets say your car has the bypass system, you have two(2) choices, 1. convert the 6.0 over to bypass flow, a job for sure. or 2. use the full flow system and get an oil cooler that works with that system. If you get the engine from a sedan, just make sure you get the oil cooler and pipes. Important, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE NEW PIPES MADE. The original pipes used were prone to failure. 3. Your 5.3 may have different pulleys/brackets and water rail parts. The easy thing to do is just transfer everything from the 5.3 to the 6.0, as the blocks/heads/front cover, as far as the outside is concerned, are the same. The distributor is the same, I believe the coils are the same, so your wire harness will be the same.
Not sure when Jaguar went to the new style TPS, so you might have to use your old TPS and throttle turnstile, no big deal, just transfer those parts from the 5.3.
Not sure about the fuel injection fuel lines, but you want to use the 6.0 fuel rail and fuel pressure regulator, as the 5.3 only uses around 36 psi and the 6.0 must have 43 psi. When it comes to the ECU, I don't think the 36 CU will plug into your harness, therefor you will want to talk to Roger Bywater in the UK about modifying your 16 CU to work with the 6.0.
I may have missed a few things here, so if you have any question drop me a line.

Darmo, ps; you have to find someone capable of doing the work, for this you can check for referrals with the local club, or, you send the car to any reputable jag shop anywhere. If so, you could then drive the car home when completed. You are spending a lot of money and it needs to be done properly.

Hello Darmo, the option of buying a whole car was to keep it as is, not to buy it just to use the engine, it, it is far too nice. In any event, the electronics in the 6.0 are totally different and would not be compatible with your 5.3 set up. The rebuilt 5.3 is available and crated, on checking it would cost around $200 and take 6 days to get to you. Regards Bill

Hello William,

I prefer to buy an engine, and the engine of the 1994 XJ12 6.0 will probably not fit/match my 1990 Vanden Plas (strictly my opinion). My charcoal Vanden Plas is in great shape actually, otherwise I would not go through all this trouble.

Question:
1. How do I know if the engine of the 1994 XJ12 will fit in my Vanden Plas ?
2. In case it fits (I need your information to veirfy), how much is the gentleman asking for his 1994 ?

My other option is to follow Art Dickenson's advise by joining a local JCNA club.

Thanks.

Darmo

oh and heres the solid for the framework,
pieces needed . cutting list.........
4 - 2x2X48 side rails -solid spruce
4- 2X2X33 end rails- solid spruce.
4-2X2X33 uprights/ corner blocking.solid spruce.
2- 7/16 X 48X30 Sides OSB
2- 7/16 X32X30 ends OSB
1- 7/16 X36X48 top OSB
1 box of 1 1/2 # 10 wood screws
Thats all it takes, plus a few pcs of 2X4 or similar to block engine in place, oh and a couple of dozen 3 1/2 spikes and you are finished.
So perhaps $30.00 of materials and one hour of labour and youre finished so thats about $270.00 an hour labour, not bad money if you find people wealthy enough to pay it. I guess you have no comment on this item either Mr Bolles.

Hi William,
what I would suggest is to Join a local JCNA group and these local people know where to find almost everything and everybody, I have been involved with JCNA for twenty years, and now know where to get most items pertaining to my cars.... The ;local people usually know who are the best mechanics in the area, and normally a JAG mechanic is better equipped to work on Jags than a Chev guy... The dealers are the last people to get in touch with in regards to the older cars as their training is updated continually for the new models. so if its more than 5 yrs old go to the other local Jag boys.... If you have lots of disposable cash around it can be gobbled up pretty quickly. be carefull out there.
Mr Bolles last night told me he had paid $700.00 ( SEVEN HUNDRED DOLLARS ) to have shims made for my engine......... I called my friend Mark Lewellen who gave Chad the info on the machinist to make the shims, , he got back to me that Mr Bolles had been charged $9.00 per shim, so 9 X 24 = 216........... thats a long way from 700 dont you think...............
I also told him the last straw with the engine was his charge of $300.00 to build a crate in which to ship the engine, He told me I was probably not aware of the cost of a sheet of 3/8 inch plywood, I said well you could use OSB ( oriented strand board ) if ply was too expensive. This morning I went to our local HOME DEPOT ( as they support Tony Stewart Racing in Nascar ) and took photos of the prices in BC Canada, bear in mind Canadian prices are generally higher than US...I have worked all my life with wood and so as a detail machinist I was able to figure out a cutting list for this crate..... pieces would be cut from approx 1 1/2 sheets of ply or OSB, franing would be made from either 2X2 or 2X3 material.A pallate can be picked up for free at the back of the store size to fit a V12 should be 36 inches by 48 inches. the crate has to be 30 inches high.2 X 2 spruce is less than $1.40 per 8 foot length, you need five of these, you may also use 2X3 they are actually $1.40 per 8 foot length. 7/16 stran board is 7.99 or so ( its on the photos I took today )
So 2 sheets of stran board is about 16$, plywood is about 4 $ more, ( its also on the photos.
so lets say $20 for sheeting ( there will be half a sheet left over.........
and 5 -2 X3 for strengths sake is about $7.00.
this and a box of screws will have a crate together in less than I hour.
How come Mr Bolles needs $300.00 stinking $ to make this , he believes I guess we still live in wigwams ot igloos........... ( oh by the way thats US $ he wants also. )

Edited on 2010-02-01 14:17:40

DARMO, Art has a lot of experience with V12's reading of his many adventures. For me a used engine is a big risk unless you know its history. It is a lot of work to install and take a chance on, particularly if you have to pay someone else to do it! (The complete rebuilt long block is a euro spec car with a high compression engine, (very desirable) I would have to work out shipping costs. BUT, I have another option for you! I have a clients 1994 XJ12 6.0. He went to Ireland for 6 months and left it in my care. Last month he told me he has extended his contract for 2 more years, so he has said it would be better to sell it. The car is jade green, has 98K miles and serviced by me for 10 years. It runs excellent. The problems are; the roof and bonnet clear coat is bubbling. The right front suspension bushes are worn and a piece of the dash wood is peeling, The rest of the car is immaculate. This is the car with the lush interior, rear picnic tables, inlaid wood and rear window shades etc. ??

Surely there is a JCNA Club nearby to you, there must be several wrecking yards.. I pulled an engine from a XJ12 that had sat for three years.... in a yard. much cleaning was needed but eventually after putting in my own distributor and throttle pedestal assembly the engine ran strong............ lots of oil pressure with cold engine and almost the same after 20 mins going around the race track @ Rivers Edge Raceways, Mission BC.........that engine cost me merely my time to tear apart another couple of cars for the owner of the wrecks.. and time to re and re my own engine and parts to change........... Many times engines can be heard running before they are removed, and usually have some warranty...... my latest purchase was a late model 6.0 litre from a wrecked XJ 1993 with 50 K on it. and almost for a song. I cant wait to instal this engine. approximately 50 xtra horses for basically the cost of TWO FULL GASKET SETS.............
Mr Bolles last night told me the shims for the valves cost him $700.00 alone...... my friend who found him the place to have them CUSTOM MADE said he spoke with the owner today and actual cost to Mr. Bolles was 9$ per shim, therefore 9 X 24 = 216 when I went to school, after all previously he told me he had someone quoted him $2.00 per shim but min order was 1,000........... enough for over 40 engines. if he is an engine builder he would obviously be better off to invest in 1,000 shims @ $2.00 apiece than pay $700.00 for 24.............come on Chad you're loosin it........

Gentlemen,

I greatly appreciate all the very rewarding dialogue on my issue. It seems to appear that I am eager to pursue the opinion of William Brady; i.e. purchase a rebuilt V12 5.3L in the US, put it on a crate and have it shipped to my hometown in Canada (the shipper of the mover needs to provide insurance). Shipping my engine and have it rebuilt may have a lot of pitfalls, especially by not knowing the mechanic.

With that, Mr. William Brady, do you have the leads that I can pursue about purchasing a rebuilt V12 ? Before agreeing to purchase, I would check the company on the BBB website. At the same time, I would check available Jaguar mechanics in the Toronto, Canada region. This may be a challenge until their performace is proven.

Thanks,

Darmo Sugeng

for many years I have reccomende the use of" FAIL SAFE THERMOSTATS" , THESE UNITS COST A SIMILAR AMOUNT BUT IF THEY FAIL THEY FAIL IN THE OPEN POSITION, THEY MAY NOT BE LISTED FOR V12 JAGS, AS THEY DO NOT HAVE THE BLEEDER / WIGGLE PINS IN THEM......... simple if yours do not have wiggle pins simply drill a 1/8 inch hole in the correct area and install with the hole at the top........the engine will then never overheat because of a failed thermostat..........

For the 1st time in a couple of months today I called Mr Bolles, he stated again and again that he had cautioned me if we were to bore the negine the costs would rise significantly, ......so I took part of the possible escalated costs out, and purchased a set of 12 pistons ..... this would be needed before boring could be done for sure......... so what's left . yes you have to bore the block cylinder liners. Chad says now that cost less than 500 $ , seems to me he had it billed to me at around 700$, please do not forget I have waited over two years for this engine...... How many sleepless nights have I had . waiting, waiting, trusting , trusting...........and then to have him not credit me for parts he says he no longer has. hello, Mr Dick Maury has visited Chad's shop, he said Chad throws out nothing.......... like most of us........ he now asked me well what would i do with all the parts, I told him regardless what I was going to do with these parts he had no right to dispose of or do anything with the parts other than send them on to me with the finished engine. unless of course we had discussed this...... I had paid in full for the stock engine 1,175 US $ imidiately Chad told me my cost of it shipped to his house/ shop whatever he has.......All these communications I have in my e mails to Chad, and receipts for the US$ money orders sent to him in his name.
As we all know sometimes when people say nothing then they are guilty as charged............
I am deeply saddened for sure with all the time I have spent on the phone long distance talking and trying to coax him along to get the job done..........
paying 300 US $ for him to build a crate just broke this camels back, he tells me do I know the cost of buying 2 sheets of 3/8 inch plywood... I am by trade a cabinetmaker. what do you think. I said well if it is that expensive to use but 1/2 inch OSB.......... tommorow I will visit the Home Depot and take photos of both the plywood and the OSB. and post them up here. Dick Maury has told me they ship engine from Coventry West on Pallets, and they could get one over really quick.... I have been a keen Jaguar Enthusiast all my life and have been a member of JCNA for about twenty years......... I normally do all my own work, but Chad told me he worked cheep and also said not to buy any more parts as he could get them for less money..... he quoted me prices which he says he never did, then makes excuses for not ordering the correct custom made Sportsman rods, he already had the pistons, where he went wrong I suppose never admit. Where I went wrong was to trust a noted V12 oficianado living on the other side of the Continent. I guess he has had problems in this arena before as last Summer I was talking to him and he had to answer his other phone. said someone did not want to pay for his engine, but he would simply sell it on E Bay, from then on I became even more sleepless in Seattle if u know what I mean.............. I hope Mr Bolles can relent, he is apparently a wealthy man, tells me he pays 500$ a month for his special satellite internet connection for his stock market trading.......... wow..... Mark Lewellen who resides in Missouri has been a witness to all of these e mail and phone happenings basically since I started with Dr. Chad. over TWO YEARS AGO........ Mark actually heard of Mr Bolles before and was a little leery at the onset, Mark is Manager of a major supplier of heart devices, and has his degree and has many patents to his credit. Mark is totally disgusted and may be contacted as is necessary for validation of this transaction, a transaction based on trust ............

Ray,
sometimes when people say nothing it is because the truth has already been told. I have only been to Court twice in my life about people who I felt were in the wrong. Both times the defendant had a lawyer defending his case. In both aforementioned cases I spoke my case myself in the last instance it was a motoring offence and the Insurance Corporation Of British Columbia appointed one of their top lawyers to defend this man. I was alone, with no witnesses, and I spoke my truth to the Judge, the case lasted almost all day.............. At the end of the case ( end of the day actually) the Judge spoke initially about my performance, initially it was as though I had not given the best performance.... he spoke for a further 3 or 4 minutes and every 30 seconds I felt as though I had won an Oscar, abeit for telling the truth... After that he tore the defendant apart re his testimony.... after that he tore the lawyer apart for being unable to disprove any of my statements .
I was awarded full payment for repairs to my vehicle..... unfortunately I was not aware that I had to claim for my filing fees at the same time so I realized a loss in that , however that was less than 200 $ CDN.

Getting back to the original issue. Anyone familiar with the XJ 12 Cyl engine knows what the pitfalls are. No 1 is overheating, this is the killer, it is almost always on b bank as the electric fan is on that side and if the fan doesn't work the head overheats. The problem is becomes more complex if the B bank the thermostat fails. The water temperature sender is on A bank so the car gauge stays normal while the B bank is cooking. The overheating, apart from loosening off the valve seats, warps the head, sandwich plate and block -in many cases making them unrepairable- making head removal very difficult. Any reasonable mechanic can access this information on the many blogs. furthermore your mechanic did not carry out the engine test procedure before disassembly otherwise he would have discovered the other issues. A complete 5.3 rebuilt motor is available here in the states for about $4500 this is the way to go as far as I can see. You need to find a mechanic who knows the cars - the one you have is not competent- also, it is a difficult job to do for the first time.

Mr. Walters, I would be happy to give you my side, but do not feel that this is the place to do it.

I for one would be happy to hear your side of the story Mr. Bolles.

Gentlemen and Gentlewomen, THERE ARE FOR SURE TWO (2) SIDES TO EVERY STORY, AND THEY SELDOM MATCH.
Chadbourn Bolles
803 532 6257

Art, it sounds like you may maybe you have been taken advantage of also, BUT, "some of these Jaguar mechanics will rip you off" is a little too much. Are you suggesting he take it to a non jag mechanic who will not rip him off? It's clear that he has done that already.

you will be wasting a considerable amount of money doing this, and it may still have there internal problems, some of these Jaguar Mechanics also will rip you off.
I have given basically $6,000 US to a so called mechanic in South Carolina calls himself Dr. Chad Bolles, The engine I paid for in full, he took apart and sold or otherwise disposed of 12 6 litre late model pistons and rods, the entire fuel injection system that came with the car, the distributiorless ignition system, and serpentine belt system, and much more..... apparently he has no academic studies to really call himself a DR, says that he was considered a childhood genius, was left a small fortune, or rather a big one and now this is what he does, he also works on Lamborginis too............He has my money and I have nothing to show for it.. He says its ready now but wants another 4,000........ hey if I sent him the money he would still not have to deliver. what a CON MAN....... Living in Canada I can do very little else as it apparently has to go to federal court...........TWO YEARS TALKING TO THIS ASS AND HUNDREDS OF HOURS ON THE PHONE........LUCKY I DON'T LIVE IN THE US FOR HIM.
Just get another engine from a wrecker and have a good guy put it in for you.

William Brady, thanks for your response. The initial problem was severe knocking when the engine runs, bad miss firing and high reving. My mechanic didn't know what it was and was willing to open the head to find out. I agreed to remove the head. It soon became evident that the head bolts had frozen tight. THIS took a LOT (hours) of effort. When the head was finally removed, the valve of cyclinder 8 was stuck because the valve guide had popped out. The banging came from the cam hitting the stuck valve like a hammer. I was told that this was usually the result of an engine that had overheated which was true.

When the head was re-installed, the miss firing continued and so did the high reving (approx. 1900 at idle). So, we cleaned the injections to no avail. Then, he ran a cylinder test which revealed the problems as outlined in my post. The high reving, I was told was caused by a stuck choke.

My concern is repairing the leaking cylinders may not cure all potential problems, and if so, I might as well spend the money on rebuilding the engine. The car is in a great shape otherwise.

Since I am in Ontario, Canada, I would need a good Jaguar mechanic in Canada.

Thanks.

Darmo Sugeng

Reading your post again I am confused as to how, after a valve job, it still has so many problems, it should have been diagnosed properly first time, Also how did these problems occur in the first place? There are many sources in the US who will rebuild a V12 but it is complicated when different mechanics are used. Normally I would only do such a job if I had the car!

Thank you very much William and Art.

First of all, I am in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada.

Secondly, I wil ask my mechanic to find a V12 from a wrecker, and I will try to get a 90 day warranty. I will try Google or eBay to find a wrecker in North America (US and Canada).

I am in England right now, until Saturday, then I am off to singapore. While here, I have spoken to VCE Jaguar Engine Specialists who will only rebuild a V12 if it is my own engine. So, not only does this cost me two shipping charges across the Atlantic, but the rebuild will cost ?ú4,200. This alternative is not good.

I will try to continue to find a rebuild V12 in North America, and failing that will try your suggestion Art.

Any other ideas are welcome. Thank you gentlemen.

Darmo Sugeng

PS I used to own a 1997 Suzuki Intruder 1400. Was a great bike until I sold it.

make sure you get at least a 90 day warranty or similar..
Art

Hi darmo,
I would find a local salvage yard and find a good one out of a wrecked car, should be able to find one if you dont act too desperate for about a grand for sure
my e mail is silver007shaw.ca. good luck Art

Where are you located?