Jaguar sales down 52% in January in North America?

Also remember that the XJ had a fuel tank issue (recall) where there was a halt in sales of the XJ while the tank issue was sorted out and a new vendor replacement tank was put in place. Although not a problem up here in the cool Pacific Northwest I understand the issue of leaking gas was occuring in hotter climates. Anyway, it certainly did not help sales figures nor Jag's reputation.

Yes to 5 speeds SWs (hard to source a manual tranny as it is a special order - autos are more common say 95% or thereabouts).

As to US importation where there's a will there's a way. I know nothing about govt BS here or there.

Regards.

D. Lokun, XJ-S +

Dan,

"Retro can be good if it captures the past as a positive," to which I'd add "and the marque has let the retro design for at least two decades." An F-type could be retro, but the XJ designers would have to go back to the Mark IX to find a design that is fundamentally different from the Jaguar evolution over the last 48 years.

Did you guys import 5-speed sportwagons? There's free trade, but the other stuff's not free. I know from discussions on Jag-Lovers XJ list, that you have to convert the speedo to mph and bring the car up to U.S. emissions standards before you can register it. It's not that your emissions standards are weaker, but there are things mandated on U.S. cars that aren't on yours. I think on the S3 XJ12s, the cost was about $1500.

Mark Stephenson, JCCA

Edited on 2008-02-04 15:27:11

PS to Mark:

Why not get a Canadian Edition X-Type SW into the US under the Free Trade Agreement (FTA) from Canada?

They are wee bit hard to find but are available in Canada.

Edited on 2008-02-04 14:07:33

Edited on 2008-02-04 14:06:53

Edited on 2008-02-04 14:05:58

Edited on 2008-02-04 13:55:58

Sales down ? Off the top of my head:

(a) Primary Reasons:

- these are pre-recessionary times, conumser apprehension
means the whole luxury segment will be down;

- XKR/XJ under is under hyper-competition conditions and the buyer
has too much choice (new GTR Godzilla Car, Lexus, Accura, Infinti,
Audi, Merc, BMW, Porsche). Half these companies did not exist or
were not in N.A. 20 years ago.

- exotics are not so uncommon any more and trying to horn in on the Jag
segment by getting buyers to jump up a segment to reduce
depreciation.

- the bargain basement value of off-lease/used Jags vs new.

- insurance and legal crackdown on all hot cars.

(b) Secondary Reasons:

- ad campaign needs spicing-up;

- pending overseas sales jitters - is there a nascient dislike of
Tata?

- the failure to import excellent diesel models and get a jump in
that segment.

- no hot exotic (a new generation XJ220) or hot sportster (ie F-Type
two seater) with some green to go with the mean image and create
auto show hype;

- there are no official race team(s); no skunk works (like McLaren,
AMG Alpina, etc.) Jag needs a new TWR. Apex needs some wins.

- the nostalgia for 60's hottie Jags (ie E-Type) that used to run
with Astons and Ferarris while being sexier AND cheaper raises the
bar beyond hope and has hurt model designs since.

- not understanding that 1,000,000 Mazda Miatas proved the sportster
was alive and well - just not British.

- Death of every other exporter British-maker of merit but for Mini,
Asti, Morgan, Lotus and Bristol makes Brit cars look risky-quircky.

- Retro can be good if it captures the past as a positive (Mini,
Harley). Evolved retro design can work(Bespoke with a Jag twist:
Weismann or Mass Production: Porsche).

Regards,

Dan Lokun
Toronto Canada
90 XJ-S, etc.

Some Jaguar models are indeed significantly overpriced.

As for, Pascal, the X-type's price is competitive with the BMW and Mercedes Benz, but unfortunately the product itself is not competitive with BMW or Mercedes Benz, Volvo or even Saab. The X-type might best be compared to a Volvo S40 - it's really very much the same size wise, it's boring, bland. The Volvo handles better, is cheaper and the interior fit and finish is much better and more appealing - not to mention drivers seating position is much more comfortable. The X-type 3.0 has 227hp, the Volvo S40 T5 has 218hp. If you have to drive an X-type ... the image of a Jaguar really isn't retained at all.

The S-type dash was a disaster - even the newer one isn't that great. In the X-type the real feeling of the interior was that Jaguar had built it on a budget with tacky wood trim pieces, plastic bits and a general cheap feeling. A new BMW 335i handles much better than either the X-type or the S-type, and slots in between them price wise. I have never been a BMW fan, but the 335i with spectacular torque is a great car to drive - I shifted into 3rd gear from a standstill to accelerate, and the car did not even stall - the salesman later said I had shifted into 3rd rather than 1st. I've driven S-types with all the engines, surprisingly I had the most fun in the 2003 S-type 3.0 with a 5 speed manual transmission.

The only current Jaguar I don't mind driving must be the XJR.

The current XJ is very well priced in my opinion - offering superior fuel economy to its counterparts, very simple and user friendly navigation interface with touchscreen, easy to handle, and nicely packaged in most respects. The base price is still much lower than most other luxury cars such as the Lexus LS460, BMW 750, Mercedes Benz S550, Audi A8 and Volkswagen Phaeton. On the other hand, some people may see that Jaguar still occupies the original market size for large european luxury cars, where other manufacturers have made their top of the line cars much larger. Jaguar has always been known for undercutting their competitors - I think the current XJ does the job nicely. So in my view, the XJ itself, is not significantly overpriced.
2001 Jaguar XJR
1987 Jaguar V12 Vanden Plas
1986 Jaguar XJ6

i don't think price is an issue... i haven't compared exact prices lately but the X-type was competitive with the 3 series or C class... and so is/was the S with the 5 / Eclass.

frankly, when you look at the styling disaster that BMWs have become, you have to wonder how people can even stand to look at them! Benz on the other hand have come a long way...

and I dont' buy the superior handling/power of BMW... i had a chance to drive a M roadster on some nice open roads, it was a very disapointing experience... sure it was fast, sure it handled pretty well but it lacked that something you get in a Jaguar.

In my opinion, the X and S were dumbed down, at least in entry form. Teh V6 and its ford tranny in the base S type didn't do the car any justice, it simply dind't feel Jaguar like... the X was ok, I drove a few loaners, i dont' mind the AWD but what was very annoying was the pitching up of the front and squatting of the rear when starting from a dead stop.

and let's not forget that the interior, especially the dash of the original S wasn't what' you'd expect of a Jaguar... Even if this was corrected in recent versions, i really feel that early buyers dindt get the whole Jaguar experience, the Jaguar feel. Obviously, making a true Jaguar without the higher sticker is tough... it was possible in the earlier years, not any more.

Pascal

Jim Morton, Greensboro NC mortoncjcmindspring.com 336-294-3436

As an ex-Ford product planner (light trucks) I am enjoying this thread. But, I suggest only a minority of buyers takes a test drive. And most of those will be in an urdan/suburban setting around the dealership. Spirited performance is not key to most purchase decisions.

I believe essentially all the Jaguar models are significantly over-priced. The prices may be OK for cars that significantly dominate their classes, and are perceived as such by the market place. But that is not the case and is very hard to do these days with so many excellent competitors, especially the Germans with their reputations. On the other hand, Jaguar is still living down the bad quality reputation even though they licked it a decade ago or more.

The market place has clearly voted that Jaguars are not worth their present prices, but a major reduction across the board would really upset the premium car financial model expected by Jaguar and Ford management.

Won't it be interesting to see what Tata does. (For my profile of Tata see the Carolina Jaguar Club web site).

Edited on 2008-02-02 11:16:19

There is no challenge when the car comes as it is from the factory though - my ambition has always been to save money and buy the best used stock model so that no modifications (modifications which often affect resale value - also affecting presentability and image) are needed to make it a "superperformer". Tacking on parts available from factory doesn't make the base car much more than a base car.

I too would never buy a new Jaguar unfortunately ... As recipients of one or two owner used cars - used buyers really shouldn't be able to complain about the boring new models I guess - you wouldn't buy a new one anyways!
Man-Shun Poon
2001 Jaguar XJR
1987 Jaguar V12 Vanden Plas
1986 Jaguar XJ6

Art Dickenson.
1983 XJS GT "Silver"
Pacific Jaguar.ca

Jaguar has done it right many times, however with Sir William gone his eye and guidance for styling are no longer with us.There are several cars we would all have liked Jaguar to produce, the ones for me was it the F Type to replace the XJS in the eighties, the XK180 in the nineties. However being a tradesman my ambition was never high enough to warrant buying a brand new Jaguar, and suffering the major loss of value associated with such new cars.
We are lucky that Sir William raced only intermittently, otherwise many of us would not have the collection of cars and engines we now have, consider paying Ferrari prices for a used vehicle, and being able to pick up a V12 Ferrari engine for sometimes as low as a hundred dollars, not likely for sure.
The challenge I have is to take a moderate performing vehicle and make it a superperformer, most manufacturers now have a sport version of many models in their line up, even Jaguar. If you buy the stock model there is usually an assortment of sport pieces you can just tack on and get the sportier ride you desire.Being raised with a manual transmission in England I have had no problem with the five speed in the X Type,and just lately with all the snow we have had around here in BC our sons X Type with BFG tyres has shown its prowess over mostly anything out there in the price range, and with its 18 inch Proteus rims it has landed right at the top of the scoring arena, which is a great thing.....I look forward to a new year and a manual trans in Silver Hi Ho Marko.......

Edited on 2008-02-02 8:16:42

Art,

The X-type may be a good car alright, but it's not a good Jaguar in my opinion - first problem is that it is AWD - every proper Jaguar should be RWD. I will confess I often took my '01 XJR on skiing trips with telemark skis stuck out the rear window or out the sunroof - but it was absolutely no problem in the snow (with all-season tires) and even managed to pull out my friend's stuck-in-snow Volkswagen Touareg (4wd SUV). The versatility of the Jaguar XJ is fantastic.

I am young, 18 in fact, and I would not wish to be seen in or drive an X-type. I strongly dislike the handling of the car, and the power just isn't there - doesn't have the low end torque to take it out of corners quickly I find and far too much body roll.

The Jaguar leadership of cutting edge styling must have ended with the Series 3 XJ, as having refined the shape, there was nothing more to do ... just spin out some XJ's that replicated the perfect shape, perhaps with bigger boot etc. and now it's come to a point where redoing an old design has led to some awful consequences - such as the new XJ. Certainly making the X-type look like an XJ was a mistake - Porsche had the same problem when they introduced the water cooled Boxster a year before the Water cooled 996 (911) - they both looked the same from the front!

Man-Shun Poon
London, England / Vancouver, Canada.

2001 Jaguar XJR
1987 Jaguar V12 Vanden Plas
1986 Jaguar XJ6

Don't get me wrong, Art (who has a picture for every story ;->). I'm not saying S- or X-Types are bad cars. IMHO, every Jaguar since WWII has been one of, if not the best performing car for the money and the times. If I could get an X-type Sportwagon with a 5-speed, I'd snap it up in a flash, but sadly they weren't imported.

My disagreement is with styling. Jaguar erred when they decided to clone and miniaturize the XJ to make the X-type. Jaguar has always been at the leading edge of automotive design. They are the ones other marques copied. They still make kit cars based on the SS100 design! It may be apocryphal, but legend has it that the designers at Buick were charged with the responsibility of making the GM division look and feel like Jaguar. They stole the oval grille around the same time Ford did for the Taurus and they're still using it today.

But you couldn't say that Jaguar had been a leader in automotive styling since the introduction of the XJ-S up until the XK was released. An F-type would have been an unbelievable kick in the marque for Jaguar, but imagine if Callum had been given the opportunity to morph the X-type into something resembling the R-D6 Coupe? That car could roll out today and still look completely modern, although it wouldn't meet Euro-we-don't-look-both-ways-before-crossing-the-street pedestrian safety legislation.

The problem was that Jaguar was chasing the mass-market. By definition, that means letting marketing define design. That's the antithesis of Jaguar.

Mark Stephenson

Art Dickenson.
1983 XJS GT "Silver"
Pacific Jaguar.ca

Just thought I would throw in to the fray the West Coast X Type Owners X Type impression, they are very good cars, event on a slalom course they can outperform almost all the other models, with times closing in on 43 seconds . I guess us Westerners are not as picky as some, at least there are Jaguars out there now relatively new that younger people can enjoy ..............

Edited on 2008-02-01 21:01:06

Futher to what I said before, I have to say in the past few years the X-types and the S-type have been getting quite boring, and comparatively speaking quite outdated.

The XJ and the XK are the only marketable models Jaguar had in 2007. But the size of the XJ is the reason the X-type and the S-type was brought in to appeal to a smaller/cheaper Jaguar car owner.

The alu XJ certainly has found many new buyers and enthusiast of Jaguar's ... but for me it just seems that there are many cars that drive better than the alu XJ. So, I personally do prefer the x308 supercharged over the new one. Firstly because it sits lower, secondly seating is more comfortable, backseat is more intimate (yes, that was important for those lunch hour "study sessions" I had in high school), and it just felt much better built - or perhaps just because it was a heavier car altogether felt more solid. x350 feels light and floaty in corners, it has lost the feeling of the tank like driving experience that I enjoy about the x308. Anyhow, the x308 looks much better than the x350 - even if the x350 does offer the "practicality side" of thing. The x350 as itself is certainly much more of a car that will appeal to a broader audience, and is no doubt a better car practicality wise. The x300/x308 will be a classic one day - being the last of the line steel bodied XJ saloon. The new x350 is fine - but where's the character? Many people buy an English car for the character, but yet when there is none to be offered... people will start judging a car by its merits. The x350 is high merited, but the X and S unfortunately are not.

The XK on the other hand - a great car in its new look. Though the old XK coupe offered more room in the rear for children - the new backseat wouldn't even fit a four year old.

ps: I went to a viewing of the XF here in London - gosh what a disappointment to see the car in flesh.

MP
London, England / Vancouver, Canada.
2001 Jaguar XJR
1987 Jaguar V12 Vanden Plas
1986 Jaguar XJ6

Mark

the weak dollars doenst have much of an impact on prices... prices have not risen, at least not as much the dollar has dropped. That must be killing profits on the US market but no impact on sales.

i agree that the X-type was a huge mistake... a lousy attempt to copy BMW and MB with 3 saloon line up.

pascal

Jaguar/Ford should have produced the F-type instead of the X-type.

Patrick McLoad
JC Houston

I'd disagree. Most people like the new XK and the new XJ, while a bit bulgy, has headroom, legroom, back seat room, and a lot higher performance than the X308. I don't know of anyone who prefers the overall handling of the X350 to the X308. If there are such people, they are a miniscule minority. The S-type is a good car, but it's 8 years old. It's dated, and as Pascal noted, the XF is jumping in.

I will agree that the attempt at mass market appeal was a huge mistake. The mini-me X-type clone of the XJ cheapened the XJ and the marque, IMHO. You don't start with the goal of appealing to the mass-market and then build a car that you think they want. You start with a beautiful car that people can't resist and you become a mass-marketer.

But I think even that pales in significance to the two things which have dealt body blows to Jaguar every time they've occurred: a weak economy and a weak dollar. Every time one of those has occurred, Jaguar has been scraping to get by. It's why the merged with BL. It's why they were nationalized. It's why they were bought out by Ford. And, now we have both at the same time. It's why Tata is now buying them from Ford.

Mark Stephenson, JCCA

Edited on 2008-02-01 17:17:58

Too much change recently. Loss of the classic steel bodied XJ in 2003. Whereas introduction of new cars always stirs interest for a little while (2001/2002 X-type), and the aluminium XJ (2003/2004). Then people found out the X-type wasn't that great - only the hardcore Jaguar guys bought it to keep sales going. the Alu XJ having lost most of the character the cars are known for... no more of the cosy cabin, the heavyweight feel when you drive it. I've driven the 2004 XJ cars, and it just feels like a totally different car than the x308's. The x350 is a good car in its own right, but lacking the character of the x308's and previous models. I was quite disappointed with the loss of the supple leather and the comfortable seats in the base model. The electronic handbrake was a mistake I think, the x308 made awesome drifts in the snow with a little action of the e-brake handle.

Jaguar was a niche manufacturer in 2002, but now as a result of trying to appeal to a larger market it seems lost.

Man Shun Poon
London, England / Vancouver, Canada.

2001 Jaguar XJR
1987 Jaguar V12 Vanden Plas
1986 Jaguar XJ6