Currently JCNA ruling requires that champion class concours cars have the original tire size of car manufacture date. Clearly tire sizes have changed and for many cars the original size is no longer available except through specialty suppliers. Often these specialty supplier tires are not fully serviceble and are good for show purposes only. JCNA by having this ruling can be seen as supporting these tire specialty shops.

I would like to initiate a discusiion on changing the current rule and have tires put into the same category as batteries, air and oil filters etc where non original replacements are exceptable under JCNA champion rules. At the very least JCNA ahould except equivalent new tire sizing to the original. This would facilitate purchase of tires from local suppliers and the use of new technology in tires. For those folks that would like to have the original tires size this option would still be available and therefore the patronage of a specialty shop is a choice not mandatory.

66fhc

Submitted by dougdwyer@adel… on Fri, 02/17/2006 - 15:39

Hi Tom :-)

Concours people come in all sizes and flavors, so to speak.

Some look upon total originality as a fun and interesting challenge, others turn it into a personality disorder. Most of those I've known have been the former, not the latter....thankfully.

I've always enjoyed the concours thing but I'll admit that I don't get too carried away (my scores prove that out). I try to keep a "compete only against myself" attitude and take pleasure in improving my car each year....with minimal expenditure. The fact is, I really go to the shows because I enjoy the interaction with other Jag owners and seeing *other* Jags. Showing my car is really just a way of forcing me to keep it in better condition.

We do have it easy compared to many others. Jeeeez.....those Corvette guys will dock you for the wrong amount of grease oozing from a ball joint or the wrong date code inside your radiator cap :-)

Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1987 XJ6 Ser III
1988 XJS V12 Coupe

Submitted by mr442nt@wideop… on Fri, 02/17/2006 - 14:52

Edited on 2006-02-17 15:31:29

Sigh. Yes, I did have a dancing hula girl in my rear window for about a year. Her red skirt matched the car, so I thought all was good. I did remove it for judging (I was kinda told to). Only reason she is no longer there is because her base broke. Fear not, it will be fixed for this season.

And at the non-concours shows, folks love it. or most, if not all, it is the first time they ever saw a cheesy dancing hula dash doll in a Jag:) Even our local trusted Jag mechanic thought it was great. I put my foot down on fuzzy dice. They just look silly on anything newer than an E-type, but if I ever get an E-type, it's the first thing I'm gonna get for it:)

Tom Kipp
89 XJ-S Coupe

Submitted by peddlarbob@sym… on Fri, 02/17/2006 - 14:28

Edited on 2006-02-17 14:32:36

Edited on 2006-02-17 14:30:59

For the record, no JCNA judge has ever belittled my car, only fellow entrants.

Tom what would you expect them to say when you display a dancing hulla girl in your rear window. Geez.....

BTW it does carry with it a deduction for non originality no matter where you go. :)

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn
85 Ser III XJ6/VDP
59 MkI 3.4 automatic.

Submitted by pascal@jcna.com on Fri, 02/17/2006 - 13:34

jerks are everywhere unfortunately, but they are pretty rare within our clubs, at least that's been my experience.

Tirerack, or maybe other big chains, are a good source. a few months ago, i needed PZeros (225/60 zR15) for the E-type and none of the local shops could get them. I gt them within a few days from TR.

Pascal Gademer

Submitted by mr442nt@wideop… on Fri, 02/17/2006 - 12:36

I am not denying other groups are any better withing a specialty niche. I used to be a member of OCA (Oldsmobile Clubs of America) and vividy remember in 1988 at an Oldsmobile only show in Cincinnati, an entrant literally screaming about his car being placed next to mine since it was not "worthy" to be shown next to his. His issue; mine had the incorrect hoses, clamps, and belts. They let him move his car.

I did feel better in 1990 when at the Steet Machine Nationals in 1990 in DuQuoin Illinois that very same car blew it's lower "correct" radiator hose right in front of me. I did help him push it to the side of the road.

I guess I don't have the correct mindset for all of this. I admit that. Some folks may say I have sour grapes. I don't. Every time I have entered a concours, I have at least placed. I only place in about 1/2 of non-Jag shows. I keep my car in tip top shape, and functional. I have to, I use it for daily transportation in addition to showing it. It is entered in "driven" class too so I guess I should stay out of this fracas. But, I do have to roll my eyes when I have folks openly berating my car for all to hear because, God forbid, there are some phillips screws instead of pozi-drive, and my hose clamps are wrong, and my power antenna has a non-OEM grommet.

And I never want to become like a fellow I witness a couple of years ago who screamed at our judges for "letting it rain" on his E-type because it is never allowed to get wet. Even I will cut JCNA slack on the judges letting it rain.

I just don't understand it all I guess. I see too many folks getting in pretty nasty fights and long term grudges being held over, in the eyes of most folks, trivial issues. I have yet to go to a concours where the cars were anything but stunning, and in my humble opinion non OEM tires, belts, etc don't make them any less stunning. There are bigger issues in life to get your blood pressure up over.

As for Tire Rack having the Pirellis, I was unaware of that. From every supplier I checked with, the BF-Goodriches were the only game in town. I did not check Tire rack. My error.

I think maybe we should participate for fun. Going home ticked off like a lot of folks do isn't any fun. It should be about mingling with our cohorts, showing off our cars, and enjoying the event. Having some yahoo belittling my car in front of a crowd puts a damper on that.

For the record, no JCNA judge has ever belittled my car, only fellow entrants.

Tom Kipp
89 XJ-S Coupe

Submitted by pascal@jcna.com on Fri, 02/17/2006 - 11:31

Thomas

Regarding your problem finding 235/60 15 for your XJS, have you looked at tirerack.com ? I see Pirelli P600 in that exact size, W rated which is higher than the V and Z ratings of the original tires.

As long as at least one national retailer carries at least one model of tires in the size specified in the rule book, i don't see any need to relax the rules.

And no, it is NOT acceptable to have tires with a lower rating, that would result in a deduct, see rule book chapter 5

Regarding your complaint about nitpicking, may i sugest that you look at other national clubs, starting with Ford, Chevys, etc... and see how they judge. Talk about nipicking! they judge the underside, suspension, etc... including obscure paint marks! I think JCNA's judging is pretty relaxed...

Pascal Gademer

Submitted by mr442nt@wideop… on Fri, 02/17/2006 - 08:47

So I guess that means we are not allowed to bring it up for consideration? The open mindedness is awe inspiring. I have two XJ-S's that require 235/60/15's. The ONLY manufacturer I can find with them is BF Goodrich, and they are not rated as high as they should be for the car. Pirelli doesn't even supply them anymore. 225/60/15's are abundant in multiple ratings and manufacturers. They are far safer than the only other option. I don't see how having a Pirelli (OEM)225 tire is a no no when having a lower rated Goodrich 235 is acceptable. Just an FYI, these cars never came with Goodrich tires. If you see the correct Pirelli's, they are pretty old. I can understand requiring the correct trim pieces, interior, paint, etc. A pro-street XJ-6 obviously does not belong in a championship division with stock cars, no matter how well the job was done. This nitpicking over expendible wear items has gotten silly. I'm at the point where I am rolling my eyes so far over these issues I can
see my own brain. I guess there is a reason of the 12 shows I participated in last season, only one was a sanctioned JCNA event. That also explains why I had so much fun last summer. To each his own I guess. You folks hold the line on issues like tires. I'll be attending those lowly generic British Car shows and (gasp) regular car shows where I park between a Chevelle and a T-bucket. I'll just be wasting my time talking cars with laid back folks, and wowing the muscle car folks with a V-12 with non OEM belts and hoses.
Tom Kipp
89 XJ-S Coupe

Submitted by SW03-09811 on Thu, 02/16/2006 - 21:38

The following note appears at the end of the Rule Book Appendix B:
---------------------------------------------------------
"General: Tires are considered expendable. Replacement tires must be the same (or equivalent) size and construction (bias/radial) as originally found on the car when delivered by the Jaguar factory or offered by Jaguar Cars as optional equipment. (See exceptions in Chapter VI). In order to ensure that the car will maintain the proper stance and original appearance, replacement tires must maintain the same aspect ratio as the OEM. The size molded into the tire will be accepted as proof of currently exhibited size (example: 6.40 x 15 or 185 x 15). Sidewall or stripe/color or width is currently optional. Universal Tire Company, Lancaster, PA, British Wire Wheel, Fresno, CA or Coker Tire, Chattanooga, TN are sources for hard to find tires."
---------------------------------------------------------------

Some manufacturers may use the term "replaces size" which, instead of being an accurate "equivalent size", may only be a size somewhat close to the original and potentially non-authentic.

The tire rules for Driven Division Entries have been generously relaxed. There are no plans to change the Champion Division tire requirements.

Dick Cavicke
Chair, JCRC

Submitted by v12-vdp@shaw.ca on Thu, 02/16/2006 - 16:09

Grant:
You make a very good point, and it is certainly worth a wider discussion. Just to clarify though, you mean (I assume) that modern dimension tires should be *acceptable* (?).
The cost of obtaining specialty tires is very high (having recently bought some for my Mark 2, I am still wincing). In adition, these tires are often not of the same quality as tires more easily available in terms of smoothness and wet-weather performance.

Gregory Andrachuk
1992 Series III V12 Vanden Plas
1966 Mark 2 3.8
2002 X-Type