Regionals and Nationals

Edited on 2005-09-28 13:26:40

Edited on 2005-09-25 21:56:13

Edited on 2005-09-25 21:54:34

So Dick in effect are you saying that Bob did wrong to make exception for my car he should have allowed me to do as I planned and skip his concours entirely and just returned home with the car. Well at least that would have saved myself the entry fee, the awards dinner fee, food and the stay at the hotel, close to $350US ($435 Canadian) in total not including taxes. Actually that would have more than covered the cost of repairing the damage to my car.

The thought that I now have is that it would seem rather foolish for anybody to make an advance entry for a car they intend driving a longish distance to a concours. I will certainly give it careful thought before I ever do it again. I do know that should I ever find myself in this situation again I will turn the car right around and immediately head for home to avoid bothering anybody.

As far as this being a rare event as somebody has suggested. That is not exactly true. Besides this current experience I had on the way to Michigan I had another this year on my way to the concours in Columbus. A truck lost a collector car off its trailer. It came right off the trailer and cartwheeled down the highway showered the road in parts. I was driving my other 92 Black Cherry at the time, The one that I have since sold and had to run a gauntlet of flying parts. Most of them being thrown up by other cars. I was fortunate not to come in contact with any where it showed. I just ran over some and lost both exhaust systems on the car. Tom Kipp a chap from the Central Ohio Jaguar club worked on my car with me till late that night getting it back to sounding somewhat Jaguar like. I also know of three other people in the North Central region that encountered trouble on the way to shows this year.

This however is not surprising. The condition of the roads just down from us in the States totally sucks and are mostly under construction. Some damage is inevitable.

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn
85 Ser III XJ6/VDP
Mk II 3.4 Automatic

What if a car were seriously vandalized on the concours field waiting for judging by a by-stander (not just sticky fingers)?

Would the vandalized car be judged in its "existing" state after being damaged on the field? Is there still no exceptions? It is not clear to me when this "existing state" to be judged starts: is it at the concours entry gate; after the Judge's first go-around or only when the judging starts.

Regards,

Dan Lokun
Toronto, Canada
90 XJ-S

Dan Lokun
Toronto Canada
90 XJ-S

Dick:

Thanks for the clarification, which is noted. Fortunately, these incidents are rare, and I hope I am never presneted with one. It seems that the best solution is to give the owner the opportunity to make his own decision: he either does not show the car, and absorbs the frustration, or he accepts the possibly massive deductions which the reflect accident damage rather than the base condition of the car. Hobson's choice, I think it is called.
One thing I cannot understand is how having a car judged on the basis of its base condition (ignoring the accident damage) has any affect or bearing whatever on any other entrant. If the car had NOT suffered accident damage, wouldn't it amount to the same thing? A serious question, not a jibe.

Gregory Andrachuk
1992 Series III V12 Vanden Plas
1966 Mark 2 3.8
2002 X-Type

QED Dick. Well stated and once again you have shown me the shortest distance is a straight line. George Camp

The following statement is contained in the JCNA Sanction request form:
"Each sanctioned event shall be conducted and reported in accordance with the official JCNA rules & regulations."

This statement is contained in the JCNA Concours Score Reporting Section:
"Submission of Concours results constitutes a certification that the concours was conducted in accordance with all JCNA Concours Judging requirements. Subsequent indications to the contrary may be grounds for nullification of the results."

JCNA Chief Judges have been told to instruct and train their judges to JUDGE TO THE JCNA NORTH AMERICAN STANDARD, NOT SOME LOCAL STANDARD.

When a score is officially reported for a JCNA Entry, it should signify that the score was achieved following the prescribed judging procedure, using qualified Judges and in accord with the published JCNA standards.... nothing less. Applying arbitrary local exceptions, which dilute or compromise the established standards, but then giving the score a "JCNA endorsement", is contrary to both the rules and the intent.

Clubs may sympathize, with an Entrant's enroute accident or damage, through some form of special recognition or local award but, if a JCNA Concours score is assigned and reported, it should accurately reflect the EXISTING condition of the Jaguar, not the condition it may have been in yesterday or may be returned to next month.

Driving ANYWHERE presents the possibility of road damage. Serious damage is the unfortunate luck of the draw. If the Entrant understands the official rules, he or she should expect to lose points for the damage and not expect any special consideration.

A club's practice of overlooking enroute damage may justifiably be protested and result in the disqualification of the affected entries.

Dick Cavicke
JCNA Chief Judge
Chair, JCRC

Bob I am afraid you did not understand my post. I like you am all for helping in any possible with entrants. The meat of my post is that you can not look at the show that you are in that day. It is a season long competition against a standard not the car next to you. To overlook a problem is to issue a penalty to everyone who shows in that class for that year!

On the darker side the 30+ years I have been at this tells me that if a rule like this was established there would be all sorts of problems including objects falling from space.

I do take objection to your stating my position as you did. If you re-read my post you will see I simply attempted to explain from a systemic approach why this is not possible. To sum it up as tough titty is a simplistic approach to make your preferences known.

What is more disturbing is the sense in many of these posts that there will be many disasters in the future.

How about this. Let's leave the show part and apply this discussion to the rally. What would you suggest for someone who started the rally and at the two thirds mark was leading in points and had a flat or wreck or some other problem that put them well behind or out. What would you do th make this come out in some fashion than tough titty? George Camp

I guess if I understand the post clearly. George and William are on the side of rigidly enforcing the existing rules, which would see if somebody encounters a problem on the way to attending their concours, tough titty to them. So in other words attend at your own risk or don't come at all.

Bob and Gregory on the other side are taking a more lenient stand that says if you take the risk to attend our concours and on the way suffer serious damage to your car beyond the inevitable stone chip or two. We are prepared to take that into consideration during the judging. Come one come all.

I must admit I far prefer this attitude. I would not want to score above a better car just because he had been unfortunate enough to have sustained damage to his car on the way to the show. Heck I have had guys loan me stuff for my car because I had lost it on my way to the concours. I have frequently done the same for others too. In some cases I have used some of my special polishes and cleaners to help get blemishes off cars I am competing with. I hope I never get to the point of being so competitive that I feel I must take advantage of others misfortune.

However I can certainly understand George and Williams's stance on this but cannot help think it rather discourages participation unless the car is being taken to the show safely tucked up in a trailer. Personally I found I enjoy the company of guys that use and enjoy their cars more than I do those that just posses then and never experience the thrill of driving them.

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn
85 Ser III XJ6/VDP
65 Mk II 3.4 automatic

First let me say that Bob is a friend I am proud to have but I do not see how this practice can be supported as a JCNA policy. The problem with this discussion is that it is tactical not strategic. All comments have been in conjunction with "A" show. The standard at any show is not how car x,y,z, stand up to each other but how they stand up to the standard for that model. Simply put in a hypothetical situation if there are 3 shows on the continent on the same weekend (note I did not say country) with 3 exactly prepared cars -one at each show- the one with transit damage must be marked down. If not you are in fact penalizing the other two cars (which are removed from that show/ judge/ situation because they DID NOT have a situation arise. Further it penalizing all cars shown that year in all shows in that class. I am all for hard luck awards and a club extending all the resources it can muster to help out but a blind eye is just more of the "entitlement mentality". I had a similar situation a few years ago when an entrant was hit one block from the show. It was a new car so I contacted the dealer who responded and collected the car and repaired it to as was standards. We arranged transporation home for the entrant and gave him an award for hard luck but no thought was given by me-the judges for that class-or the entrant for an easement. In sports no handicap is given in championship competition for handicap. This is no different. Gregory I think your response may be too quick as I am afraid you will quickly run out of places to show as the judges do not have the discression to do what you desire and if they did on the right day-or perhaps wrong day there would be a protest and it would be upheld. If fact if the event was published or known I can see where a protest could be lodged by a class entry in a different show at a different time as it affects him also. Sorry but do not have time to spell check this. George Camp

William:

I have just written myself a note reminding me never to register in one of your concours events. This season I entered 5 different concours events, three in Canada and two in the US. So two of these entailed driving to a foreign country and putting a total of more than 1500 miles on my car. Two of the othe trips, while in Cnaada, also involved hours of travel. One was in my own club territory. Happily, I did not suffer any damage to my car en route to these events (other than driving through a blinding rainstorm in Washington State which left dirt *everywhere*). But if I had, and if the damage were not repairable in the motel parking lot the night before the event, I would certainly have mentioned the damage to the chief judge.
In the events I attended other entrants suffered two cases of severe "en route damage" that I am aware of. One was a cracked windscreen from a rock thrown up by a truck; the other was a completely smashed right side front fender on a Mark 2; the accident happened 4 blocks from the show field (this was the Vancouver concours). If I understand you correctly, you would have taken major deductions in this case (lights broken, paint damage, wheels marked, etc)....and you would expect the entrant ever to participate in a concours event again???
The judging issues you cite have nothing to do with the sort of compassionate discretionary exemption that a chief judge might make. They have to do with ignorance or bias on the part of judges. These are completely separate issues. As another responder said, this is suppose to be fun. To repeat, I do not advocate changing anything.

Gregory Andrachuk
1992 Series III V12 Vanden Plas
1966 Mark 2 3.8
2002 X-Type

I think this discussion is "fun" in an intellectually stimulating way.

Frankly, the thought put into some the opinions kind took me off-guard.

I thank every one for having such informed and articulate opinions on the matter.

This is my first year showing a car which was acquired last year so I did not know that this was such a complex issue.

My two cents is (are?)that judging (legally, medically, educationally, scientifaclly) is an exercise of expertise/knowledge, exerience, ethics and a sense of fairness.

Judging should have a quantitative analysis and a qualititave analysis.

This "enroute" damage issue also seems to mirror legal thinking in which the concept of "justice" requires two competing conceptual underpinnings: the "law" (Rules are Rules/No exceptions way of thinking which creates certainties) vs. "principals of equity" ("fairness and mercy" dilluting the letter of the law). Rendering a legal judgment seeks to achieve the synthesis of the law tempered with equity for an overally just/fair result.

I think some latitude for en-route damage encoruages members visiting clubs around North America.

For Me: an out-of-town concours entails driving to a place I have never been to before on a Friday night 100s of miles away. Moreover, my class of D08A makes it mandatory that I drive to the show. Sooner or later, this en route damage issue is going to come up for me too.

PS. If a new Jag club is formed south of Mexico and wants to join JNCA will JNCA become the Jaguar Clubs of the Americas (JCA)?

Regards,

Dan Lokun
Toronto Canada
90 XJ-S

Bill As I have already posted I was the one with the XJ12 or V-12 VDP as it is properly identified.

Firstly. the amount of Sand and Gravel that I had deposited in the hotel parking when I washed the car off told the whole story to anybody that was remotely interested.

Secondly. as Bob said ÔÇ£I did not ask for an exemptionÔÇØ, I had already decided to quietly turn around and take my car back home. I was packing up my things when Bob came over to me to introduce himself and I informed him of my intentions.

Thirdly. This was a brand spanking new set of 7ÔÇØ headlights that I had just installed on this car. Had you seen the overall condition of my car even with the damage it would have been most apparent to you that there is no way I would ever have brought my car all that way to participate in a concours if it had had existing damage. I scored perfect for the interior and I lost only 0.1 for a ÔÇ£singleÔÇØ water spot I had overlooked in the engine bay. Now if you have ever attempted to detail a V12 EFI engine you will already know how much time and effort it takes and how anal you have to be about your car in order to do it properly. What would be the gain for somebody to go to that amount of trouble with preparing his or her car and then attend a Concours with such visible damage. It totally defies any logic.

I hasten to add that some of the exterior body paint damage I sustained was counted and I do not have a problem with that. I thought what Bob did for me was more than fair. On the other hand I understand clearly that under the standing rules I would not have had any reason to complain if the cracked headlight lens and the chipped windshield had been included. However had I not been offered the exemption for these two items I certainly would never have presented the car for judging. I would, as I have already stated have just turned around, skipped the concours entirely and driven the 400 Klms back home.

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn
85 Ser III XJ6/VDP
65 Mk II

Edited on 2005-09-24 22:14:09

Robert, I disagree with your opinion that the Chief Judge must have latitude to be able to overlook or disregard rules as he sees fit. That is not fair to other people to enter their cars in concours where handicap considerations are NOT made the written rules are followed by those Chief Judges.

Again if you and others would like to see the JCNA rules revised to allow this then that is the approach that should be taken but until that change is made official, I strongly believe that it's wrong to allow the practice of overlooking anything that classifies as a deductions during judging.

I go to great lengths to prepare my car for a concours and I'm becoming increasingly upset when I attend concours where I'm competing against cars where obvious deductions on Jaguars competing in my class are overlooked (like Dayton wire wheels, wrong hose clamps and obvious cleanliness issues, etc.). I'm sorry but it bothers me even more to then come to this forum and see people concocting yet another "unofficial" plan to cheat me and others like me out of the awards we should rightfully win. Others may disagree with my opinion but this is how I feel.

Again, I have attended concours sponsored by six different clubs and have never heard of the practice of allowing "en route" damage or ANY "special consideration" for whatever reason. The JCNA rules are very specific on this "no handicap points."

I drove my car over 500 miles (one way) to a concours last weekend and showed in Championship Class and it never crossed my mind to ask to be shown special consideration for certain areas of my car not being up to snuff because of the 500+ mile drive. If I wanted the car to be perfect, I would have trailered it.

I show a Series III XJ6 in Class 12 so I'm on the lower end of the food chain here. However, I think that someone with six figures into a beautifully restored E-Type who has also five or six figures invested in a large truck and an enclosed trailer so as to ensure that his car is the best it can be come concours day has all the grounds in the world under the present rules to file a HUGE protest if he were to learn that another car competing against him was allowed charity points because he cracked his windshield and chipped the paint during his drive to the show.

In Texas and Oklahoma we allow declarations for what we call transit damage. These are declared to the Chief Judge before the judges meeting and it is the Chief Judge's decision to rule on the validity of these claims. This is rare. We did have a incident this year where an entrant in a 2000 XJR went to have some printing done for our club and got a big goose egg dent in the parking lot at Kinko's by an SUV. We do these as discrectionary judgment calls. Always at least one judge will be familialr with the entrant's car and we will remember it if is still at the next show. This is an informal gentelman's policy that is outside of JCNA and I see no need to place into JCNA policy.
David Nichols
Chief Judge JOASW SC35 (Dallas)

Gee William, you sound just like a DI at Paris Island! Please remember that Concours are supposed to be fun and the chief judge must have the latitude be able to act when unusal circumstances arise. The line is drawn, as far as I'm concerned, when traveling to or at the Concours site and none, I repeat none, of the competitors of the mentioned cars had any problem with the Chief Judges decision. Let's not make any new rules before there's a problem.
Bob

In my opinion, in all the cases you mentioned, the cars should be given the appropriate deductions and I still maintain that the rules as presently written do not allow the Chief Judge the latitude to overlook things like this and as I stated before, I would be against revising the rules in order to give any kind of handicap points, even in cases of bad luck.

You cite a specific case about an XK120 sustaining damage on the way to the concours, well what if it happened the day before? How about two days before? How about one week before? Where do you draw the line?

To me it's pretty simple, the current rules do not allow turning a blind eye to obvious defects no matter what the cause and I personally do not approve at all approve of this. Rules are rules that must be followed. Rules can be changed through the normal channels (brought up to the rules committee and approved at the AGM) but until they are, Chief Judges should not ignore them for any reason whatsoever.

William, I agree that the examples that you site would warrant a deduction. The exceptions that I referred too in an earlier post were as follows and I'd like your opinion that as chief judge how you would have handled the situation.

1- A XK120 that was driven up from Columbus Ohio( 200 Miles) to the Michigan Concours was hit by a truck about 5 miles from the Concours site and suffered considerable body damage.

2- A windstorm the night before the Louisville Ky Concours blew over a portable tent damaging an XJ6 parked nearby.

3- A XK150 driven down from Detroit to the Louisville Ky Concours blew out a rear tire leaving him without a road worthy spare and several marks on the wheel opening from rubber flapping around.

4- The XJ12 at our recent Concours that suffered a broken head light, several chips in the windshield and paint finish do to a truck spillage of gravel. The entrant did not request an exception but as chief judge I made the decision to have the judges overlook the damage as it was obvious it had just happened.
Bob Stevenson Chief Judge Jag of Mi.

Bill:
Just to be clear: I do NOT advocate changing any rules in this regard. I do advocate the application of the rules in a spirit of common sense and generosity. With regard to the idea that an entrant would attempt to lie, well,...your experience may be different than mine. Trust and goodwill are basic to this endeavour as to so many others. If the damage is still present in a second show, then obviously no attempt has been made to correct it. But I would rather give an entrant the benefit of doubt in a first instance, and besides, like most other Chief Judges, I have enough experience both in preparing cars and judging that I am pretty sure I can spot new damage as opposed to old. Yes, leave the rules as they are, but apply them as you would want them applied to you.

Gregory Andrachuk
1992 Series III V12 Vanden Plas
1966 Mark 2 3.8
2002 X-Type

Edited on 2005-09-24 16:02:25

With all due respect, how would a chief judge ever be able to know when the damage occured, "en route" or months or years ago? This is why I favor keeping the rules in place that we have and not making exceptions to them. If chief judges were allowed to make arbitrary decisions like overlooking obvious flaws and damage, that's just plain not fair to other entrants. Bad luck is just that, bad luck, kind of like the guy whose car received thousands of dollars worth of damage by a guy who ran a red light. Should a person in this situation be allowed to drive their severly damaged car on the field and have all the damage not taken into consideration because it happened "en route"? This would open a whole can of worms that would do more harm than good to our whole JCNA consours system. I can see far too many situations now where people would be claiming "en route" damage:

"My horn and lights worked BEFORE I hit a pothole on the way here and now they don't."

"Crack in the windshield, what crack? That wasn't there when I left my driveway this morning."

"My paint was perfect when I left my house, those stone chips were not there and I should not receive deductions for them"

I understand your position Dr. Andrachuk but I respectfully disagree with it because I don't feel that people with those three explanations I cited above should be allowed handicap points.

With respect, Bill, the "nonsense" is in thinking that a competitor, having endured an accident of some kind *en route* to a concours (and thus entirely beyond his ability to adequately repair or replace), should be penalised for that which is entirely beyond his control.
The spirit of the "no handicap" clause is that the competitor should address all known issues before entering the car in the concours. It is NOT intended to (literally) add insult to injury by deducting points for a crack in a windscreen (as an example) when that crack is the result of a rock thrown at it while driving to the field. If the crack was present when the car was in the competitor's driveway and thus could form part of his preparatory consideration, that is a different matter. But to follow such rigid thinking to its logical conclusion would require, for example, the penalising of entrants for water drops on the car when the judging is conducted in the rain. Surely no judge would do that.
Any chief judge who observed a fundamentalist understanding of this kind of issue with my car (meaning accidental damage en route, were it ever to happen), would see me for the last time at his concours events. A little critical thinking is required here.
My understanding is that we are to encourage participation with fair, uniform and repeatable judging, not to discourage participation by refusing to use common sense and compassion.
Gregory Andrachuk
Chief Judge,
Jaguar Car Club of Victoria
1992 Series III V12 Vanden Plas
1966 Mark 2 3.8
2002 X-Type

Chief judges DO NOT have the authority to violate the rules in the rule book. The rule book specifically states "no handicap points." I have never seen this "discretionary practice" allowed at ANY concours I've ever attended (six different clubs) and I would be strongly against changing the rules to allow such nonsense.

Dan too many people would take advantage of this type of rule. For now be thankful for the grace extended you. You experenced "et religio et regio" (Latin very rusty). Let it go with that. George Camp

Seems fair as a practice but perhaps there should be a rule (with an attendent form)in that regard in the future pland of JCNA to make this discretionary practice (an ad hoc solution) more official.

Dan Lokun
Toronto, Canada
90 XJ-S

Hi Dan,
There is nothing in the rule book to cover "en route" damage but I've seen it occure at least 4 times in the 80 or so Concours that we've attended. On each occasion when it was pointed out to the chief judge he told the judges to overlook the damage.
Bob

Sep 22 2005

Okay, regarding the last bit of discussion and the damage issue ... how is damage that was incurred "en route" to a concours dealt with?

Is there a rule or is it basically discretionary?

The JNCA Rules require that your car must be driven to an event for driving class (fine by me - we like to drive the V-12 around and about)so issue of "en route" damage is important to me and also must be a perenial issue that comes for everybody.

On the way to Ottawa, we were sprayed with tire debris.

On the way back from Michigan, I think some sort of critter (or a cardboard box) bounced off our car's air scoop/fender/mudflap but luckily no detectable damage.

Regards,

Dan Lokun
Toronto, Canada
90 XJ-S

I did try to clean the area afterwards but as you know that sun was so hot it was drying quicker than I could wash. All I accomplished was to spread the stuff all over the place.

For you others that donÔÇÖt know. I was driving my beautiful 92 Black Cherry to the Michigan concours and a gravel truck emptied half its load on the highway just in front of me. I could not avoid running right through it and my car must have scooped half the load up. The car was covered in the stuff leaving me with no idea how much damage I had until I got to the Hotel and they gave me a hose. Once I saw that at the very least I had lost the windshield (many chips), headlights (cracked) and gained a few chips in the paint. I was about to pack up my things and just head back home with the car. Robert Stevenson arrived and I told him what had just happened, He took a look at my car and convinced me to stay. Now I am glad I did.

Now this is funny when you consider that I had sold my previous 92 Black Cherry and had just purchased this car five weeks before to replace it. I had then driven this car 4,888 klms all the way home without getting a single mark on it, not even as much as a stone chip. I spend all the time in between getting this car ready for concours competition. I drive it another 300 klms to its first ever concours and it nearly gets destroyed.

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn
85 Ser III XJ6/VDP

You mean thar you didn't clean the washing area when you got through? Shame ,shame! The welcome mat is out and although I know you were sick about the stone damage to your car it could have been worse. 20 or so years ago, John Macfadden (if that's not spelled right I'll certainly hear about it) of JCCO, had a run it with a truck in his 120. I'm afraid that John was came out on the short end of the stick but he was still able to drive the car the 200 miles home.
Bob

Edited on 2005-09-21 12:08:29

Yer but Bob Watch that Fred Hill he sort of fudges with his figures. Hee hee

This year he counted me as one of his people and I don't belong to his club. I am at large or is it better put that I donÔÇÖt belong to anybody. Thinking about it, Toronto must be a good club if it won't have me as a member. :)

BTW I am still doing repairs after my run in with that gravel truck on the way to you concours. My paintwork took a beating as well as my headlight, windshield and front wheel rims. Dispite all that, like Dan I had a great time and will try to get back again next year if the welcome mat is still out. I did leave rather a mess in the hotel parking lot after washing all that crap off my car.

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn
85 Ser III XJ6/VDP

See u there.

Regards,
Dan Lokun
Toronto Canada
90 XJ-S

Yep, Toronto next year!. Chuck Diamond and Fred Hill have got some kind of bet going over which club will be best represented at the other's Concours.
Bob

Michigan was a personal best for the car but, more importantly, we had a blast.

Next time, I may stay an extra night and pass up on pulling into my home base at 2:00 a.m. on a Sunday morning.

The hurricane relief raffle at the awards dinner was a thoughtful gesture. All during the weekend I was surprised and humbled by the gratitude expressed to me for the efforts Canadian disaster relief workers.

Toronto next year?

Regards,

Dan Lokun
Toronto Canada
90 XJ-S

Hi Dan, I hope that you enjoyed yourself at the Michigan Concours. As the two top scores went to Canadians no one can ever say that our members enjoy a "home field " advantage!
Bob Stevenson Jag of Mi.

Thanks to all for the info.

And without a doubt, I am an now avid fan of the road trip and meeting new people. Until this year, I did not truly appreciate how nice a jaguar is for intercity trips. Intermittant starting problems (now fixed) precluded longer trips before this summer.

I started this thread with "...three concours(s)" which looked rather odd so I thought I would ask.

In French, "le(la?) concours" seems proper and so could be pluralized as "les concours" but how might the same be done in English which lacks le/la/les?

I like "concoursi" or "concoursae" as invented suggestions although they are not very French in structure.

Dan Lokun
Toronto, Canada
90 XJ-S

Yikes! what happened there?! my elegant French accents were converted into something quite bizarre. To clarify, it is "Concours d'elegance" with an acute accent over the two "e"s in "elegance".
Gregory Andrachuk
1992 Series III V12 Vanden Plas
1966 Mark 2 3.8
2002 X-Type

You are correct: there are no "National" awards; as JCNA is a 3-nation club, cars which reach the highest levels in concours competition receive "North American" awards. It has nothing to do with people (meaning Canadians) taking offence. It has to do with logic and common sense (not to mention courtesy). As a personal example, my cars this year have been entered in 5 competitions, 3 in Canada and 2 in the US. My top three scores are combined from both nations.
The plural of "concours" is "concours" (the "s" is always silent),
the full term being: "Concours d'?®l?®gance". A "concourse" is, as Pascal says, just wrong. That word refers to a large gathering place, such as an airport concourse.
However you spell it, it is supposed to be fun, and it is. Great fun, in fact.

Gregory Andrachuk
1992 Series III V12 Vanden Plas
1966 Mark 2 3.8
2002 X-Type

having a good time is indeed what it's all about!

i'm not aware of any plural to Concours :-) some say "concourse" which is wrong... i've also seen "concours de elegance" ... instead of Concours d'elegance ... :-)

regional: average of your 2 best scores in your home region. Members at large are not eligible.

North American : average of your 3 best scores anywhere. don't you ever use the word national... that will get you in hot water with your compatriots :-) they seem to take offense. No sanctioned concours in mexico, although nothing prevents them from holding one

if you qualify for a North American award (top 3), you do not qualify for regional award.

provisional standings shown on the website are North American, using the average of your best 3. at the end of the year, the system computes regionals after removing the top 3 north american who are not elligible for regional and scores received outside a member's home region.

confused yet? :-)

Pascal Gademer
72 E-type 2+2
00 XKR Coupe