Air Conditioning Mechanic Needed

I rebuilt my 1984 XJ a/c and in order to do that, I went to A/C school for 12 weeks to learn about refrigeration, because I got fed up of getting ripped-off by people and a/c businesses who know less than I about my car and all they can come up with are theories and substitution of parts because they couldn't diagnose the parts or the problems that were already there in the car. Well, heck I can do that myself without any help!

At one point in my desperation I called my local Jaguar Dealer, the same dealer who sold the car in 1984, and the Service Manager said: "My technicians are younger than your car, and we don't have any troubleshooting manuals or equipment for your car, sorry but we can't help". NO KIDDIN'!!! The sign should say: "We only SELL cars ONLY".

So off to school I went and I graduated Magna-Super-Omega-Cum-Laude-Cum-
Laureate with a License and a pat in the back; I came home and started to diagnose and rebuild my a/c. Apparently I did it so good that now the complaint is that the air is too cold and I have to turn the dial up to 75 degrees or higher, especially at night. (this in the middle of July at 103 degrees CST).

Boca Raton means = "Mouth of the Mouse". (Boca=mouth, Raton=mouse) that's what it means for those who spika-le-spanish.

Question: Are the two Blowers going to the 4th Speed when required ?
In other words: is air PRESSURE satisfactory ?

There are so many sensors and relays, amplifier, solenoid, thermostat, vents, tubing, and valves, not to mention the Servo under that console that it takes Einstein to sort it all out, unless you have done so many of these cars that it comes second nature to you, anyone who dares say the Delanaire is a "simple system" is either an experienced technician or someone who knows the system inside out from plain experience. Simple ? NOT!

When working correctly, the XJ-6 Delanaire is the most exciting a/c system I've ever had the pleasure to have, bar none. It is powerful and cold.

Anyone remember Jaguar Cars' advertising in the 1980's ? They took a Series 3 XJ-6 to Death Valley California to put the Delanaire A/C to the test at noon. It passed the test and kept the cabin cold with 2 people in the cabin. (at that time Jaguar was having a public relations nightmare with their air conditioners).

The bottom line is that you need to find someone who knows the Jaguar XJ
system, not GM systems; Any a/c mechanic can check the gas, but if he/she has never worked on the Delanaire, it's all trial and error. The brand of the Compressor has nothing to do with nothing, it could very well be a Nippodenso or a Ford FX10, and as long as it is pumping, (heaven forbid putting a Ford compressor in a Jaguar), and there's sufficient gas in the system, then the problem is somewhere else.

regards to all and don't throw any stones at me for having my own opinion.

I was hoping I could find an answer here. I am still looking for a reliable source. Boca is too far to go. Please- does'nt anyone get their car AC fixed in West Plam or Jupiter?

Gearge, easy answer ! Jaguar and Delanair simply sourced lots of parts from GM, that's all !

AC Delco is primarily a *marketing division* of General Motors. I am not aware that they are or ever have been involved with the design or manufacture of climate control systems.

The parts are sourced out and *marketed* under the AC Delco label. I wouldn't be surprised if many Jaguar/Delanaire widgets could also be found in a Ford "Motorcraft" box, or Chrysler "Mopar" box....all companies buying from the same manufacturer or distributor......"Acme Air Conditioning Parts" for all we know ! However, if the parts were boxed with a "Mopar" logo, would you necessarily say the climate control was a Chrysler design? Of course not !

Many Jaguar books have mentioned that Delanire modeled some aspects of their Mk II system after existing GM designs of the 70's. This could well be true but, after seeing more than a few of both types, I am very hard pressed to find anything common between the two.

Anyhow, you may be right in that a good A/C man may not find the control side of the system to be complicated. Personally, I don't think so, but, hey....that's just my opinion :-)

The poor guy with the weak A/C probably thinks we're nuts. I wonder if he got the system fixed and, if so....by whom ?

Cheers
Doug Dwyer

Gee if there is no connection why are 90%of the non cabinet parts Delco and why are the piles of NOS AC parts I have in Delco boxes from Jaguar?You are correct in stating this isn't helping the fellow. All I am trying to do is suggest that it is not complicated.
George Camp

George said: ... It is a simple system (note I did not say cheap). As far as Delanair goes it was simply a company that adapted systems to cars. the DEL part was DELCO...

The original manufacturer of the heater in the series 1 XJ was Smiths. If you wanted air-conditioning, you bought the optional Delanair system (standard equipment on US cars).

The makers of the upgraded Delanair system were actually a company named Delaney - Gallay. They were a UK firm which manufactured aircon systems for several makes of Brit cars as well as other applications. The DEL part of Delanair is Delaney ((-;

AC is Albert Champion - a French bicyclist who moved to America and made spark plugs. He fell out with the bankers and lost control of his Champion Spark Plug company but soon after formed AC - which was bought by Buick - which was bought by Al Sloan and merged into the fledgling General Motors.

Delco (the Dayton Engineering Laboratory Company) is a US firm. They merged with the Remy bros.' Remy Electric in the 20s to form Delco - Remy. Then they were bought by the General and formed into AC Delco in the 70s.

The Delaney-Gallay Delanair has no connection to AC-Delco.

None of this helps our original poster, however. I'll just say, if the problems are in the control side of the system, he needs to find someone who knows the system.

John Testrake
Jaguar Association of Greater St. Louis

I think all John and I were trying to do is convey to this poor fellow is that he'd be wasting his time if he's was left under the impression that he could drive up to any Chevy or Pontiac dealer and expect them to work on his Jaguar air conditioning. Very likely, they won't. That's all.

Cheers
Doug Dwyer

John-- please note he said it blows somewhat cold. If it is blowing the first thing any tech. should do is throw a set of manifold gages on it asd see what the system is doing.

George Camp

This gentleman was in need of a shop. I was trying to give him some options. Possibly what I should have said was a good AC shop. Considering the other post I retract GM shops in Florida as they are evidently greedy (Pascal says they would double the price) or not good techs (20 years). Our jaguar dealer here is also a GM shop which taints my answer. Any of their lead techs (both sides of the house) could do the job. A good AC shop I still insist would not be intimidated at all. I have a few years experience also and do these all the time. I do have all of the (secret) books although I had no idea they were secret. It is a simple system (note I did not say cheap). As far as Delanair goes it was simply a compant that adapted systems to cars. the DEL part was DELCO. So back to the reason for the post of trying to help a fellow motorist. He has no Jaguar mechanic he feels confortable with-- we have possibly convinced him that the system is so complex no one else can understand it-- well he is in Florida--wonder how far he is from NASA. Think they can understand it?

George Camp

Gotta agree with John on this one. While the refrigerant portion of the system is standard enough, the control system is a mess. A typical "GM shop" doesn't know "Delanaire" any more than a hog knows its Sunday and wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. There is nothing in the Delanaire system (excluding, as mentioned, the refrigerent parts) which would be even remotely familiar to a typical GM guy.

I say this as a person who has spent the last 26 years working in "GM shops" :-)

Cheers
Doug Dwyer

Well Goerge, you said "Any good GM shop should be able to work on it. It's a Delanair."

I took you to mean that Delanair is standard fare on GM cars. I was just pointing out that the guys at a GM shop have probably never heard of Delanair and, in my experience with two XJs with that system, they won't be any help. I was curious why you specifically recommended GM shops. Other than the common use of the Fridgidair compressor, GM never had anything to do with Jaguar climate control systems.

I agree that the systems are fundamentally similar to those found in period Lincolns and Cadillacs but some specific knowledge of the system is needed to properly troubleshoot problems with it. For instance, most shops won't know that there are two fans with four speeds, or the location of the four fuses in the system, or when the center vent is supposed to be open and when it's supposed to be closed. Lots of other stuff that isn't real clear from just having general knowledge of aircon systems.

I have a bootleg factory manual on the delanair Mk II that was sent out to the Jaguar dealers here in the US. They were getting cars in with problems and the Jaguar dealer mechanics didn't have a clue. The system is complex, perhaps overly so.

John Testrake
Jaguar Association of Greater St. Louis

John I got news for you. When it is a control problem on anything relative new everyone does some head scratching. The compressor is an A6. The expansion valve, hoses, dryer, belts, R-12, fuses, pressure switches, and a host of other parts are available through any parts house. Controls are organized a little different but function like anything else (other cars). It is a simple system and dont think anyone in the UK designed any of the major parts. They pulled parts off the shelf and only designed the case and vent system around the Jaguar body. There is nothing magical about AC systems and they all function by a fairly rigid set of Physical mechanical parameters that are the same for all cars.

George Camp

I'm not sure a GM shop would be much help. The compressor is a Fridgidair A6, which is found on millions of GMs everywhere, so they would certainly recognize that part of the system. But Delanair was a UK company. They produced heating and AC systems for Jags, Minis, some Porches and even railroad saloon cars. They're no longer in business. The Delanair Mk2 and Mk3 systems found on ser2 and 3 XJ6/12 and the XJS is unipue to those cars. I think the GM mechs will just scratch their heads if the problems are in the control side of the system. Of course, Jaguar techs might do the same thing now days.

John Testrake
Jaguar Association of Greater St. Louis

yeah... but GM shops will raise prices by 50% when they see the Jaguar badge! :-)

Pascal Gademer
South Florida Jaguar Club
72 E-type 2+2
00 XKR Coupe
99 XJR

Any good GM shop should be able to work on it. It is Delanair.

George Camp

Jaguar Doctor, in Boca.

it's a bit further south but well worth it. does a great job, very fair prices.

561 362 7464, ask for Thierry

Pascal Gademer
South Florida Jaguar Club
72 E-type 2+2
00 XKR Coupe
99 XJR