69 XKE brake bleeding

At the risk of being heretical - I've found that on my '68 the brakes bleed themselves. I keep the reservoirs full, open the bleed screws and wait. Soon the fluid starts running out - wait till it's a steady stream (no bubbles) and close the bleed screw. With a complete change (starting with an empty reservoir) you may have to pump the pedal a few times (valves open) to get it started but it has always worked for me. You can do it with all screws open or one by one (closest to the m/c first). This is the simplest way to change the fluid semi annually or whenever you do it. Been doing this for years.

Bob I had to replace a brake line on my Cosworth Vega so I bought the bleeder tool you spoke about. Easiest time I ever had bleeding brakes. Next up will be to use it to flush the brake system on the E-Type. Thanks for the tip

David Barnes
68 E-Type FHC

I am throwing my 2 cents in. I bought a " one man bleeder" from griots garage. Its a suction type that works off a compressor and generates a Venturi effect. Anyway, it works like a champ. Best 40 buck tool i have.

As for the rear brakes just get the back up on jack stands and they are not that hard to get to.

Bob F
69 S2 OTS

Hi Tom,

Considering that the ball spends its life being mashed against the seat by the tightened nipple and never leaks a drop I'd say there was a pretty good match between the ball and the seat. Besides, there's no air any where near it, just a tube filled with brake fluid. However, the point is moot if you pressure or vacuum bleed, and I for one will never pump the pedal again.

I realize that is the intended function of the ball but there was a question in my mind as to whether there was a good enough seal to prevent drawing some air back into the lines when the pedal is realeased.

I have not had to replace the master cyl on my E-type but do use a cheapo little one man bleeder to bleed the calipers. It has tubing to hook up to the bleeders on the calipers and a little bottle on a magnet to attach to the car at a higher level than the caliper your are bleeding. I have used it after all of my brake repairs the last several years including after master cyl replacement on my 70's Chevy's. My memory is I got mine at Autozone for under $10 and has met my bleeding needs so far. For as cheap as it is might be worth a try if you do not have an assistant. Here is a link....

http://www.amazon.com/25036-Bleed-O-Matic-One-Man-Brake-Bleeder/dp/B000C...

David Barnes
68 E-Type FHC

Hi Michael,

I've bled the brakes on my E-type many times over the years and the best way that I've found is by using the Gunson Ezeebleed kit. It uses low pressure ( about 15lb.)from the spare tire, connected by an air line first to the front fluid reservoir for the rear brakes and then to the rear reservoir for the front brakes. I use a clear flexible hose to fit on the bleed nipples. Once the air line is connected to the reservoir, the bleed nipple is opened. When the fluid flows without air, the nipple is closed. Works very nicely.

Regards,

Stuart.

Hi Tom,

That steel ball is the check valve that only allows fluid to escape. That's why you DON'T need to close the nipple between each pedal stroke on these cars. Michael, my car has access panels behind the back seat that allow a clear shot to the top of the calipers. Vacuum bleeding has the disadvantage of pulling air past the nipple so you can't really tell when you're done. However, since it is impossible to introduce air into the system when vacuum bleeding you can simply pull a cup of fluid from each corner and call it good. If you Google "Pressure Brake Bleeder" you'll come up with things like this: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mvp-0101/overview/.

Hi Tom,

That steel ball is the check valve that only allows fluid to escape. That's why you DON'T need to close the nipple between each pedal stroke on these cars. Michael, my car has access panels behind the back seat that allow a clear shot to the top of the calipers. Vacuum bleeding has the disadvantage of pulling air past the nipple so you can't really tell when you're done. However, since it is impossible to introduce air into the system when vacuum bleeding you can simply pull a cup of fluid from each corner and call it good. If you Google "Pressure Brake Bleeder" you'll come up with things like this: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mvp-0101/overview/.

I have always considered the brake bleeding process to require two persons, one inside and one outside. When the pedal either reaches the floor or exhibits back-pressure then the outside person should open and then close the bleeder valve. Then, and only then, should the inside person release. the pedal. Be certain to maintain fluid in the reservoir. Attach a length of tubing to the brake bleeder screw and keep the end of that tube immersed in a bottle containing fluid. This assists you in observing the air bubbles. On my '63 model there is a small steel ball located beneath the bleeder screw, this is easily lost.

There are several methods of manually bleeding brakes, the two I will talk about both require the assistance of a second person. Generally start at the furthest wheel from the master cylinder. Also if you put a small hose on the bleeder you have much less spilt fluid to clean up . Starting with the master cylinder full, the pumper pushes down the brake pedal. At the wheel cylinder you open the bleeder, then CLOSE the bleeder and tell the pusher to release the brake pedal. Repeat until fluid comes out clean and clear. Repeat for all corners of the car. The variation is to have the bleeder valve open before the downstroke, but always closed on the up or return stroke, doesn't matter much either way. You can also use the tip of your finger as the one way check valve, but wash your hands afterward and DON'T drink the brake fluid. The issue with the manual bleed is that usually people use a full stroke on the master cylinder, the master cylinder does not usually see a full stroke and corrosion can occur and deposits may build up in the cylinder. Pushing the master cylinder cup seals past this can damage them, requiring renewal of the master cylinder. Which is why for most people a hand vacuum pump is the best option because the master cylinder seals don't move out of range. And if you have worked on the calipers, remember the bleeder valve is always higher than the brake line. The tip about using grease at the bleeder threads is a good one but even better is to use anti-seize compound.
good luck

Funny you should mention that; that's how I grew up doing this job and that is what I did on one of my passes thru the process (the first quart or so of fluid). None of my sources, including the Jaguar Service Manual, the original Series 2 Owner's Service Handbook, Autobook Workshop Manual458 (Kenneth Ball) and Floyd Clymer's Workshop Manual, mention closing the bleeder valve between pedal strokes, but universally suggest slow pumping the brake pedal with the bleeders open and closing the bleed valve only upon bleed completion at each brake. One source even suggests only gravity bleeding the rear brakes simultaneously with no pedal pressure at all. It is clearly easy for a first time E Type owner to be confused, and I am.
Seems my only option is to buy another gallon of brake fluid and tray again with a lot more patience. I'm going to start with another attempt with a vacuum pump. If that fails, I'll try the slow pedal release technique.

... just thought I'd mention - make sure you have someone closing the nipple each time you release the break pedal. Otherwise you're just sucking air back into the system.

Thanks Michael,

I tried a vacuum pump before, but with limited success. I'm never quite sure that I'm not drawing air in from a weak seal between the vacuum tubing and the bleed nipple. I just learned that packing a bit of grease around the perimeter of the tube after fitting it to the nipple will solve that problem.
I have been releasing the brake pedal entirely too quickly, and may give it another try with a lot more patience.
Do you have any tricks or aftermarket mods to make it easier to fit bleed tubing to the rear brake bleed nipples? Lastly, do you know the manufacturer and/or source for your friend's reservoir pressurizer?

Hi Michael,

The master cylinder makes a very poor pump, since it was designed to push fluid to the brakes and then receive the same fluid back again. The only time it needs anything from the reservoir is as the brake pads wear and more fluid is needed. For that reason the hole from the reservoir to the master cylinder is very small. When you bleed the brakes you push lots of fluid out and then release the pedal to get more fluid from the reservoir. Unfortunately the fluid can't flow into the master cylinder very fast and you end up with a vacuum in the MC chamber. That vacuum pulls air past the rubber piston seal and you end up with a MC half full of air with every pedal release. There are a couple of ways of avoiding this. I got myself a vacuum pump and bleed the system by sucking the fluid out of each caliper, not using the MC at all. A friend has a unit that pressurizes the system from the reservoir and so forces fluid through the system, not using the MC at all. If you need to use the MC, be sure to let it up VERY slowly to allow enough time for the expelled fluid to be replaced.