1987 XJ6 hard starting, gas fumes

Yeah, communication is a bit more complicated with more than one Doug . . . that doenst happen very often ! Anyways I appologize for interjecting my sunroof comment in the "hard start" thread - I'll make this the last post on that subject and if I have new topics start another thread. That said - pulling the lockout switch resulted in confirmation that it was the culpret for all windows not working - but the switch is broken (plastic "bits" inside) and so Im inclined to reassemble it with the switch in the on position.

The sunroof switch was corroded in one pin - apparently on the "open" position which is why it was not working. I have cleaned it up and the sunroof now functions properly ! ! Thanks so much for your help ! !

Doug Smith, like Doug said, you may have tripped the lockout switch that shuts off power to the roof and window switches. My sunroof is now working perfectly.

Disconnected the line to the evaporative canister, no more pressure in the fuel tank. Still chasing the hard starting problem. Beginning to suspect the ignition switch. Some days it takes 10 or more attempt to start, other day it fires right off. In all cases it seems to start best if I don't touch the throttle until it has started.

Did the lock-out switch accidentally get fliiped? Or disconnected?

Cheers
DD

Doug -
thanks much for your help. Sorry for delay - did the below over a week ago then was out of town so now just getting back to it. I was able to get to the switches by getting the cubby loosened and reaching under it (for some reason front where the lid latch is doesnt seem to want to loosen). Regardless - got the sunroof switch pushed through - it had one pin that was very corroded (green) - cleaned it up with pencil eraser and a bit of electric contact cleaner - reconnected and it still didnt work. then tried the window switches and none of them worked either (had been working prior to this activity). Any thoughts as to what I may have done wrong ??

Remove the console cubby box (easy) to release the switch from behind.

A pencil eraser often works well for contact ceaning. Or a fine sandpaper.

Cheers
DD

Jim -
I am the new owner of an 86 XJ-6 VDP - also in great body and interior condition, with some smaller mechanical issues (some similar to yours) due to having had very little use the last 5 years. To that point - my sunroof is also not operational - so I am now very encouraged in terms of the possible fix ! ! ! To remove the switch on the center console - is it just a matter of carefully "prying" around its perimeter until it pops out of the console ? Then what - detatch electrical leads - take the switch apart and use electrical contact cleaner and cotton swabs to clean contact points ? ? Any description of how you removed and cleaned would be appreciated !

Doug Smith
Reading PA

There's a vapor/venting system for each tank. The piping goes forward to the right front wheel well to a vapor cannister in front of the right front tire.

The system has a couple in-line two-way pressure valves. It's been some time since I've given any thought to the system so I'd have to do some mulling to refresh my memory on the exact operation....which is a little tricky.

However.....

For the moment you can disconnect the line and see if anything changes.

If you remove the r/f tire you'll see the line that runs from the tanks to the cannister. It's clipped to the inside of the wheel well. Follow the line towards the cannister. You should see a plastic valve, horizontally mounted. Disconnect the hose from the "tank side" of the valve. That is, if your looking at the valve, unplug the line that is attached to the left side of the valve.

The tanks are now simply vented to atmosphere so neither pressure nor vacuum should develop in the tanks.

Report back

Cheers
DD

Drove to the gas station this morning to fill up. When I pushed the release on the fuel filler cap it flew open with some pressure behind it and a rush of air, smelling of gas, burst out. This was the same tank I had been running on so it is not like the fuel return was going to the inactive tank and building pressure. It has been warm in Alabama recently but not that warm. What do you suppose is the source of all of this pressure?

Thanks Doug. Pulled the switch and cleaned as you suggested. Sunroof now works perfectly. All windows working as well. Moving on to the front end, right front shock has no bushings at all. Sway bar is without bushings as well.

Jim, the sunroof is on the same circuit breaker (not fuse) as the left side power windows. So....if your left windows are working the circuit breaker is OK.

The sunroof (and power window) switches are a weak point. The contacts go bad. It's an easy thing to pry them open and clean the contacts. In most cases that fixes 'em right up and there's a decent chance your sunroof will close!

Just pay close attention to the little bits when opening up the switch. One tip I learned was to put the switch in a clear plastic bag and then pry it open. That way you won't have tiny parts falling on the floor :-)

Cheers
DD

New fuel pump installed, car is running again! Still hard starting but at least we are over the pump issue. Took her for a short test drive; after sitting for a while it was a little rough at first but smoothed out. Need to address the front end - bushings around the shocks are gone. Sunroof opened find but then wouldn't close. Had to crank the little shaft on the motor to close it. Anyone know if there is a fuse in the circuit, couldn't find one in the fuse block.

Does not need to be primed.

I would've expected a gusher of fuel with the line diconnected ....in fact, I know it'll gush with full or mostly full tanks. But perhaps, at half tank, the fuel pump is actually situated higher than the fuel.

Cheers
DD

New pump on the way. Does it need to be primed? When I removed the old pump there was no gas in the fuel line from the tank, but the tank is 1/2 full.

Thanks Doug. I was afraid the pump was bad. I'm searching the net now for a replacement. Tracing the wiring now...previous owner soldered the positive connection to the pump. The wire is not OE either - looks like something he had laying around the shop.

Correction!

The resistor (in the diode pack) is situated before the realy, reducing voltage to the control side of the realy, not reducing voltage to the pump. The pump should see full battery voltage when cranking the engine and with the engine running

Cheers
DD

When cranking you shoud see 12v at the pump. When running, a bit less....as voltage when running is directing thru a resistor in the diode pack. Not as low a 7v though, as far as I know. That seems abnormally low. Look for a connector problem.

The thump from the pump sounds bad. It should hum. Not a bellows pump. It's a rotary vane type.

Cheers
DD

When cranking, what voltage should I see at the fuel pump in the trunk? Volt meter read 6.9 to 7.2V. When I applied 12V to it I heard a single "thump" like it was a solenoid. Zero fuel pressure. These are expensive si I would like to be sure before I spend the money. Is this a bellows design?

Thanks Doug. I am now tracing the wiring because you are correct that previous owners/mechanics have made many modifications. First I found the wire to the cold start enricher was broken inside the insulation. Starting is ok now but hot starts are like dealing with a flooded carbureted engine. The fuel pump running as soon as the ignition is turned on is causing a problem so that is the next thing I attack. The A/C & heater vents did not function - found a vacuum hose plugged and the hoses to the vent actuators gone. New hoses and they now work.

Fuel odor - it is strongest in the trunk area and it migrates into the passenger compartment from there. I replaced the hoses (someone had used heater hose) and new clamps throughout. Traced the fuel line the length of the car and the engine compartment but found no leaks. Let the engine run while I looked for leaks in the fuel injection area. It it all seemed tight and dry. No spots on the ground under the car but when I drove it away and came back to where it had been parked there was a trail of gas for about ten feet. I think the leak is inside, behind the back seat under the floor where the fuel lines go through the trunk bulkhead. The gas collects when the car is stationary and spills when I move it. Tomorrow I will dig further.

Someone has "messed" with the wiring & plumbing in the engine compartment I wonder if anyone has photos of what an OEM compartment should look like. My manual is not clear and doesn't address all of the connections. I have wires that are cut and hanging and no idea what they are for.

First, you should NOT hear the fuel pump by turning the key "on" . It should operate A) whenever the starter is engaged and b) when the engine starts drawing enough air thru the air flow meter to close the fuel pump switch.

Next, the fuel pump shouldn't stop running at a certain pressure. The fuel pressure regulator controls pressure....not the pump cycling on/off.

Not sure if either has a direct bearing on your hard starting problem. Maybe, maybe not. But I have to wonder if a previous owner has monkeyed things around. Any signs of that?

There are various ways to approach this problem. I'd begin with a fuel pressure test but you could also check for a nice fat, blue spark at the plugs when cranking

Fuel odor: many possibilities. Fuel injector hoses (ar any of the various engine bay fuel hoses) , fuel tanks, any of the fuel hoses in the truck and rear fenderwells, gas cap seals. One often overlooked item is the samll hose...only a couple inches long....at the very front of the cylinder head. Usually hidden by glbs of dirt and oil.

Cheers
DD