Preservation judging

The Preservation Class is a very special and limited part of the concour hobby, since, aside from cleaning, nothing can be done that will improve the score of the car. It's condition depends almost wholley upon the care of previous owners, and its maximum point value is theoretically achieved the first time you show it. It continues to deteriorate with time and points slip away as you care for it over the years. Any repair/replacement merely adds another deduction. Still, just as with the survivor class in Corvettes, it remains an important reference standard for every restoration that follows. Congratulations to those of you with the heart to keep these cars original!

If a judge that told you "your score would be better" in Preservation Class if you replaced bad rubber either he was wrong, you didn't ask the question correctly or you misinterpreted the answer.

In preservation class if you replace worn or missing parts with new ones you will receive large point deductions. You really need to read and study the rule book. Here's an entry from Chapter II, Section 2, Subsection C, Paragraph 3:

"Preservation Class Entries shall be judged as all other Championship Division Entries, that is, on the basis of authenticity, condition, and cleanliness, except, restored or reconditioned items will be assessed 'non-authentic, wrong, missing or incorrect' point deductions"

Subparagraphs a, b, c, & d give more information.

I cannot answer your "95% original" vs "85% original" question for obvious reasons, those being that you need to quantify which parts have been replaced and give me the corresponding non-authentic point deductions from the rule book.

Again Joe, you really need to read the rule book, here's a link:

http://www.jcna.com/library/concours/2011/2011%2010.1%20Complete%20Rule%...

William, Thank you for the reply. Your statement makes total sense and I fully agree. I kept coming back to when I questioned a judge as to what would happen if I replaced the rubber and he said the score would be better. This is what seemed to not make sense to me in preservation class. If someone has a car with better (original) paint or rubber then, more power to you and the scores should reflect that. I had a problem with the following scenario: car A is 95% original and car B is 85% original ( new rubber etc.). All else being equal; which one should receive the higher score?

Like I said yesterday, I'm just trying to understand the process. The main goal is having fun!

William, Thank you for the reply. Your statement makes total sense and I fully agree. I kept coming back to when I questioned a judge as to what would happen if I replaced the rubber and he said the score would be better. This is what seemed to not make sense to me in preservation class. If someone has a car with better (original) paint or rubber then, more power to you and the scores should reflect that. I had a problem with the following scenario: car A is 95% original and car B is 85% original ( new rubber etc.). All else being equal; which one should receive the higher score?

Like I said yesterday, I'm just trying to understand the process. The main goal is having fun!

Joe, if the original parts are faded, worn, pitted then points will be deducted in all classes. Say you're competing against another car in preservation class that is exactly like yours but his seats are not worn, his paint is not faded and his rubber parts are perfect. Should you both receive the same score?

Edited on 2012-01-23 17:11:28

Thank you to all for the details. I should have been more clear that the car has only been judged in preservation class, which is why I questioned the deductions. I fully understand that judging is going to be different from venue to venue and judge to judge. I'm fairly new to this game but am confused why a preservation class car would have points deducted for having it's original parts left in place. Along with the rubber, points were deducted for worn leather on the seats and faded (44 year old) paint. Ultimately, I am in this hobby to have fun and enjoy my cars; I'm just trying to understand the process more clearly.

Joe:

As William J. has said, for us to fully comment on your case, we need to know what Class the car was entered in for the 99.1, 99.4 and 90.78 scores. If the car has been restored to some extent, but still largely original, then those scores could indeed be correct, if the 99.1/99.4 scores were for Champion Class, and the 90.78 was for Preservation Class, where all the "restored" items would then receive non-authentic deductions, but all other aspects of the judging would be the same, and the standard to which the car is judged, is the same.

If the scores are all for Champion Class scoring, then something is truly wrong, as no car should receive scores with that much of a difference, unless it has just been restored (score going up), or in an accident (score going down). Either the 99.x scores were far too lenient, or the 90.78 was far too harsh. Do you have the score sheets for each of those scores?

Because judging is still a subjective exercise, and probably will continue to be one as William B. eluded to, you need to expect that scores will vary from event to event for the same car in the same class, and the variation will depend on the overall condition of the car to begin with. This may not sound right, but keep in mind that it is the Judges' job to review the areas of the car that they are responsible for, and find what is "wrong" with the car as presented, compared to the standard of how the car should have left the factory. A car that is a 90 point car, could have variations of say -5,0 to +2.0 in scoring, as there are many things "wrong" with the car, and given the fixed 15 minutes for judging time, a judge may or may not even be able to fully judge all issues in that time. One that is a 95 point car should have a tighter variation, of say +/- 1.0 points, and one that is a 99.5 point car, may have only a +/- 0.2 point variation, as there really is not much "wrong" with the car as presented, and all areas can be fully covered within the judging time with ease.

I would suggest that you review the JCNA Concours Judging Guide, which fully explains what the standard is, how judging is to be carried out for cars in the various divisions, what items are deemed to be authentic, what items are deemed to be non-authentic, and why, and the points deducted for non-authentic items. If you then review your car yourself, you can get a pretty good idea of what score range your car should be in.

If you still have questions, don't be afraid to ask here; we have a lot of very good, and very experienced judges who can help.

Best Regards, Mark Roberts

Joe, the fact is, there probably isn't a real 99.4 e type anywhere in the world. The Judging is what it is get used to it!

I'm confused with what exactly your questions and concerns are. If you enter your car in preservation class, the deductions are the same as championship or driven. If you replace worn parts you will receive higher scores in driven and championship but you will be penalized in preservation class. That makes perfect sense to me because driven and championship classes are all about presenting the car in the way it was designed to be presented which does not mean worn parts, faded paint and pitted chrome and preservation class is for those purists who think it's a mortal sin to replace any worn and damaged parts because they want to keep the car "original."