Re.: Faster Jags

Interesting... here is my followup: I did finally get all of the parts that I ordered and all have worked, however I am now seriously thinking of getting a better set of fans from V12 that pull MUCH more air as the ones that I have are not consistently cooling. I am not convinced that the parts that I have really work that well although they are better than the stock ones. It remains to be seen if I was lucky or not....we shall see. Other than that in order to be "good" I will say no more ;-)

Yes, it looks like George was one of the lucky ones, or was he?

Edited on 2012-06-19 18:01:12

As an interesting follow-up to the OP it seems several now have found an appropriate place to lodge their complaints:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Search/Body/FasterJags_com.aspx

Just did a 400+ mile plus run yesterday in the Big Cat, mostly at 70-80 mph, and absolutely no issues other than I severely depleted the planets fossil fuel supply. ;-) All components worked flawlessly and the temp never went above N. So I am thinking that the cooling system issues are perhaps under control now... Was a little worried about electrical issues since everyone scares the heck out of me talking about them, but yesterday no problems. Did have a tiny bit of vibration in the steering wheel from something, but since the tires are on my list for replacement due to age, perhaps that will take care of it.

Have a great w/e!

Since this thread is named "FasterJags" guess that I need to say that all of the parts that I purchased from them are working just fine, no issues. With all of the other cooling system repairs the upgrade to an aluminum higher capacity radiator and twin electric fans the Big Cat stays dead on the N once warmed up. Love the Growler K&N filter intake system....frees up a lot of space under the hood and sounds awesome. ;-)

Part of the cost was that since the heads had not been off in 21 years the tech had to build a "puller" to ease them off so as to not damage the heads. Think that he said that there were 28 studs. You can buy the tool but it is much more expensive than his building it. Yes, probably should have been a shop cost, but c'est la vie. There is no free lunch ;-) With the heads off he was able to get a good look at the valves and the pistons, so all looked good. Think that he also checked what he could of the timing chains. A one year warranty on the job also.

BTW, what is a good resource for wiper arms. Mine are "weak" and do not press against the glass very well, thus do not clear rain as well as they should.

Hi George,
it is a big job doing all that work for sure, great idea to replace the water pump at the same time.they are a difficult thing to do with the engine in the car. I have done a few of the heads off items, sometimes they are not too bad to get off, others are a real problem...I am glad you are happy with the job being well done.........but as you say if you want to play you have to pay...........Fortunately I am still able to do all my own fixes so I play for much less than many........however the day will come i am sure when someone else has to do the work...
Best Wishes, Art.

Art: At the risk of exposing myself to "you paid way too much" I will indeed let all know what I paid for the work done. Tech also checked over the fuel rails, repaired any that were suspect, changed the oil and filter, changed the coolant, and a myriad of other things to make sure that all was OK. Total bill including NC taxes was $7,100. Remember also that this is a shop that comes highly recommended by the Carolina Jaguar Club and is so busy that I had to wait almost 3 weeks before they could actually get to it. The laughable thing is that this is more than I paid for the car.... ;-) but now it should be a good driver. I am OK with it, just was absolutely the most that I have ever paid on a vehicle repair, including replacement of a racing built motor in my Donzi... Guess if you want to play, you got to pay...

just out of curiosity what was the big ticcket in the region of..

OK, the "Big Cat" is back from the shop ( Foreign Accents in Greensboro, NC ) and running like a champ. Just took it on a 200 mile run up to the Blue Ridge Parkway and back and the temp never moved above the N even in heavy traffic. He replaced the two leaking head gaskets, milled the heads a bit, tweaked my tranny shift points for better response, repaired the wiring to one of the electric fans ( which was also running backwards apparently ), fixed a leaky banjo bolt, replaced the water pump, and a few other things. BIG TICKET, but in the grand scheme of life, it was probably worth it. Running at 70 mph on the freeway up to the mountains the free flow exhaust system was sounding great and when kicked down to pass, the Growler free flow intakes really sounded off, not to mention the kick in the pants as the Big Cat launched..... life is good

Nice boat....classy looking. My Donzi is more like "Silver", so I just say that I get lots of smiles per gallon ;-) With marine gas at $4.50 - $5.00 per gallon and a 50 gallon tank, just don't worry about the fuel costs. Like with my XJS, that is not why I have it... have it for the pure joy....

Hi George, my boat is a simple Mercruiser IO with a gentle 140 HP , 3.0 litre.....great recreational boat for calm lakes........15 gallons of gas for a fine weekend of skiing and bench / table racing and fun.........Silver uses that much in ten minutes......LOL.......

Did I miss something? Baaaaa baaaaa baaaaaa ;-) BTW I did order some of the "fail-safes" from Amazon to try.... will advise as to my experience....

Did I miss something? Baaaaa baaaaa baaaaaa ;-) BTW I did order some of the "fail-safes" from Amazon to try.... will advise as to my experience....

thats news to me, and if it is not appropriate it will be deleted. Don't be a sheep........all your life...

Is there any other downside of the fail-safe thermostats remaining open other than lack of heat coming into the cabin area?

Also, I was able to find another, more appropriate site to take my complaint to. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to promote it here so if you google "fasterjags" it should be pretty close to the top of the page.

Art, is that a jet boat....definitely back in the day ;-) Nothing like a big honking V8! In fact, when I put a low restriction exhaust on my XJS I am not sure what I was looking for other than something besides silence. Interesting that what I got was that my V12 sounds like a tractor at times, now at certain points in the RPM range it truly sings a beautiful song though. Back on track, I think that I will try a set of the "fail safes", with all of the mods that I have done to the cooling system the "Big Cat" should not overheat, but this would be some good insurance for sure.

somehow I clicked on the wrong button and became poster boys with my good friend and past Pres. of Seattle Jag Club, Stephen Christensen..... could have been worse I guess....LOL..

'Fail Safe" thermostats are marketed in the US by Motorad, available through Amazon.com and many part stores. PN is 7233-180JV. I had looked at these when they first came out, and wasn't impressed. The main problem is that they don't simple "fail open". They lock open any time there is an overheating condition, regardless of the cause. So if you have a bad water pump, blocked core, collapsed hose, or maybe just forget to top off, you will have locked thermostats. When this happens, the stat can't be released, but must be replaced. They might save the motor, but more likely, you'll just be going through more thermostats.

Donzi running hard....

Donzi running....

Think Art is the guy in the white suit, the "good guy"... Oledawg would be me... don't have a picture with my Jag, but might with my Donzi ;-)

Edited on 2011-09-12 20:04:47

Think Art is the guy in the white suit, the "good guy"... Oledawg would be me... don't have a picture with my Jag, but might with my Donzi ;-)

Who's in the photo? Art or the Old Dog?

Hmmmm, good idea. I did put new ones in as part of the upgrade, but don't think that they are "failsafe". If anyone following this thread knows where I can get these I will certainly do so. Thanks for the input, as usual.

HI George,
after all this expense ,perhaps you should consider replacing the std thermostats with "Failsafe " units. if they fail they fail in the open mode, not closed like a std thermostat.I am un sure what they are called in the US, but are widely available in Canada . 2 required per V 12 engine...

OK, "Big Cat" is getting TLC at Foreign Accents in Greensboro via Chris. Heads now off, which was a huge job since they had been on for 21 years. Lots of studs. Both head gaskets were leaking, but all else looked good, no damage from the overheating that I experienced. Will fix any minor items, put a new water pump on, and put it all back together. With the new cooling system already in place hopefully no more overheating ;-) Will keep all posted...

Shop is recommended by Carolina Jaguar Club and I visited before sending the car over. Tech is Jag certified and the shop is very, very busy...will be 3-4 weeks before they get to my car, so I think that they will be OK. They are also advertisers in the CJC newsletter and give a discount to folks that come to them through the CJC. As always, we shall see ;-)

Thats is not good news........ I hope they have the expertise to do the job .......good luck.......

Verdict > heads coming off...leaking head gaskets...

OK, had the "Big Cat" towed over to Foreign Accents in Greensboro to see what the heck is going on. We shall see...

Edited on 2011-10-09 9:16:39

@William > yep, at idle after starting I have run it for 20 minutes or so and the temp never goes above N and when driving it takes a while for it to start its move up, probably another 15 minutes or so. Stops about 75% up between N and H, then hangs just below H...BUT today it actually hit H and then all of the other unpleasant stuff happened. With the original setup it did similar, just never this hot. That is why I was trying to be proactive and fix the cooling issues. With the old system I have driven it for a 100 highway miles at a time with it never overheating. Good catch on the fan direction, but surely my mechanic should have caught that :( Hahahaha, you a funny man...what A/C? Just kidding, it does have A/C, but since the radiator replacement it doesn't seem to work.

hi George, you should also install a MANUAL overide switch, that way you can turn them on as soon as temp goes over the N........stay home and leave the small bleed plug lose and just run the engine for a couple of minutes a time, do this several time and that should get all the air out.....but you need both fans operable.......

What's interesting is that apparently, the car runs at normal temp when idling, and only heats up when driven, the thermostats & water pump work at idle so why wouldn't they work when moving. I think it is time for a leak test to establish there is not a combustion leak into the cooling system. BUT, george said it ran normal with the original set up! If so, then the problem is within the new components, I would check the fan operation first, are they blowing the correct way and why arent they operating on temp? By the way they should also come on whenever the AC is on!

@George > now wouldn't that be something if that was it... they could be holding the pressure at first but then letting the pressure escape, but seems like it should still be pushing something out of the overflow, which it is not.

@Jerry > when I replaced all of the parts I asked my mechanic about the water pump since we had everything else off, but he looked at it and said that it seemed to be OK, no sign of any water coming out which is what usually happens when it fails. I have no idea of the maintenance history of this car...nothing came with it....that was one of the reasons I started with the premise of replacing the cooling system...however I just have made the issue worse apparently.

Thanks guys for the input. I will see what the guy in Greensboro thinks. He advertises in The Litter Box and hopefully will have some ideas. Will get it carried over to him and see what we have...

Unfortunately I did not leave the ignition on...turned the car off since sitting running was not doing anything good...guess that I could have left it on ACC, but not even sure that the fans run then. I did go back out about 30 minutes later and cranked it to see what was happening...all sounds OK under the hood and temp was N...turned it off again and left it. Oil is showing Full and warning light is off. Like I said, going to stop messing with it. I contacted a real Jag mechanic that advertises in the Carolina Jaguar Club publication and will see what he says tomorrow. ForeignAccents in Greensboro. I can get the car over to him via my auto club if he thinks that he can figure it out. Going to skip taking it back to my regular mechanic, who is good, but not a Jag expert...

George,

Having just fixed a cooling issue on my 1995 V12 XJS, I have been following your thread with interest. It seems that you have replaced all necessary parts with improved or new parts except possibly the water pump. I did not see that mentioned in the post you have made so far. I am no specialist or trained mechanic, but maybe the impeller is just sitting still as the shaft that drives it is spinning. I have seen warnings that some replacement water pumps have plastic impellers that fatten when they get over heated. I don't know if you have the original factor pump or if it was replaced by a previous owner.

As far as your fans are concerned, the factory aux fan runs from a thermal switch mounted in the water pump. Mine was not functioning and I replaced it with the high performance one sold by V12s, same as the Faster jag switch. There also can be an issue if the Aux. Fan relay is bad. At any rate the switch you ordered from Faster Jags should come on at around 180 degrees and stay on to 160 degrees after the engine is shut down.

One last thing I have been told is that if you do not have the left and right bank synchronized as far as throttle body settings and idle speeds it can cause the car to run hotter as well.

Just more food for thought. I may be way off on these but who knows.

George no steam should "escape" from the filler caps--it should overflow the reserve tank and the catch bottle--the only place you should see anything is at the drivers rocker panel at the fender edge--perhaps you have two bad pressure caps!

George, do not drive the car until you find the problem, the oil pressure dropped due to the oil getting so thin from badly overheating. It is incidents like this where it is essential the fans work when the ignition is off, did you leave the ignition on until it cooled down?

OK, "burped" it yet again...all looked good...took it for a drive and almost didn't make it home... got really hot, so hot that steam was escaping from the two filler caps...gauge showing just below H, low oil warning light came on as I pulled in...checked the oil and it was OK, must have had something to do with the heat.

When you start the car, let it warm up, it stays just below or on N, as you drive it the gauge and I presume the actual temperature keeps edging on up until it hangs right below H...will not come down, regardless of the speed.

Like I said earlier, think that it needs to go back to my tech before I really screw something up....the "burping" is not difficult, I just can't see that it is doing anything. One thing that I noticed is that the expansion tank is not voiding any overflow at all and the overflow from the central filler does not seem to be moving anything to the right hand banjo bolt on top of the radiator. Fans still do not run when engine is cut off, even with the extreme heat...something is not right...

@William > totally awesome information and I will try that fill technique. Nothing else has really worked out and based on your info I really need to take it back to my tech to sort it all out before I mess something up. Truly a learning experience for me ;-) Thanks.

George, you should be topping it up via the central filler neck as you suspected! You are discovering that this is a difficult cooling system to top up and bleed, -that it has been redesigned a number of times doesn't help- that being said, it works well when done correctly. From cold fill the expansion tank up to about half way -use a wooden rod as a dipstick- then fit that cap. Now open up the small bleed screw on the radiator and add coolant through the central filler neck, add it until fluid escapes from the bleed screw then close the screw. Now start the car and switch on the heater, (make sure the valve linkage moves, the rod should be fully down). Now add coolant to the filler neck till the coolant is about 2 inches below the top, fit the cap and you should be set to go. As for your fans, they may be designed to operate as you say but I would question it! A major design fault on the car was that a temperature sensor is fitted only to the right head! On your original set up the main -(constantly on)- fan was also toward the right side, the secondary fan was smaller and on the left side. As the V12 is virtually two engines joined together, if the small fan or the right side thermostat is faulty it is possible for the left cylinder head to badly overheat whilst the right side stays normal as does the gauge. This was the cause of valve seat drop on the left cyl head of many hundreds of cars. We fitted many cars with a second gauge on the left side which helped a lot. By the way, you should have 160F or 74F thermostats installed. Depending on the climate the gauge should settle the N & O. Also, it is important that the fans operate on temp alone so that they stay on when the ignition is switched of in hot climates!

Should have my gun next week, so I will check the actual temps. Think someone has posted what they should be. This may be a totally dumb question, but I keep having a heck of a time trying to get coolant into the tiny hole on top of the radiator... Can you put it in the filler that is on top of the water pump? Seems logical to me, but hey I am not a tech ;-)

Should have my gun next week, so I will check the actual temps. Think someone has posted what they should be. This may be a totally dumb question, but I keep having a heck of a time trying to get coolant into the tiny hole on top of the radiator... Can you put it in the filler that is on top of the water pump? Seems logical to me, but hey I am not a tech ;-)

Hey it is good they are both working..I don't think it matters which comes on first....not sure why one would be on at all times however.probably does not matter. what do the instructions tell you..??sounds like your engine temp switch is functioning , another good point.. a temp gun would be good for sure to check when it switches on.......

OK, have done a couple of purges at various points...still running about halfway between N and H. Did notice that the top left electric fan comes on all the time, whereas the bottom right electric fan kicks in a higher temps. This is the reverse of the old system where the bottom right fan was run by a belt. Make any difference which fan comes on first?

Hi George,
when the engine cools down , take out the little plug and I hope you see water right about there...a digital temp gauge is a great idea, I have one but they can be had pretty reasonable @ Harbor Freight or similar places. If it is not boiling over that is a good thing. A rad such as that it should be almost impossible to overheat. But the air has to get out or pockets around the valve area can allow to much heat and expansion, and therefore encourage the dreaded valve seat coming loose and giving you a real challenge.........
Best Wishes.Art 604 465 7244 Pacific time....

@Art: "bubbled out" some yesterday, never exceeded N, then took the Big Cat for a run...after about 15 minutes the gauge moved up between N and H...stopped for some 93+ petrol, when I restarted it hung just below H and never moved down. I will purge more, but wondering if George Camp is right, i.e. perhaps the gauge is not correct...I am not getting any overflow from the expansion tank at all...I did order a laser temp tool to "point and click" at various points to see what the temp actually is. The engine doesn't seem as if it is overheating but it scares me anyway. Will keep looking for the problem.

Good,
I have helped several people with this piece of knowledge.it helps when you have owned one of these cars for 22 years. and have 3 sitting in your back yard......just keep doing it, and leave the small plug loose till water creeps out and bubbles stop.........do not let the temp get past the top of the N.....
Best Wishes, Art